Let the golden age begin?

[Lembit]

I have seen little discussion on the effectiveness of golden ages, is this a waste of a couple of GPs and is it worth building the Taj when I could be churning out more permanent resource multipliers.

The AI often seem to have golden ages, some 2 or 3 of them a game, which must come at some expense due to their increasing cost.

I personally only use them on marathon games where they last 18 turns or just after a spate of expansion to try and get my economy back in order, and obviously nearer the end of the game when a super specialist is not as effective. But would I be better off using my GPs in other ways?

[DirtyMartini]

I don't know the answer, but I almost never have them either. I occasionally build the Taj, but only if I have nothing else going on...which means I probably have a huge lead...which means it's probably a moot point.

I can see your point about triggering one after a bout of conquest -- that might nicely complement my current strategy of chopping in required intrastructure. The AI usually leaves enough forested hills sitting around to make chopping a viable strategy.

I've tried to remember to use great people for golden ages in the end game, but it usually slips my mind as I'm busy grinding the rest of the world under my bootheel.

I'd be curious to see what other people think -- 8 turns just isn't that long.

[Urban Ranger]

I always build the Taj Mahal when given the chance, just to deny others if nothing else. A Golden Age is a nice little easter egg.

[JimG]

Its most gratifying to see 10 gold coming out of riverside towns if you are a financial trait leader

[jonta]

I allmost never use golden A's
But i can see the point in very late game.
I tend to only build special buildings, if thats out of the Question, i build superS.

[Adagio]

I never get a golden age, unless I'm lucky to build the wonder that gives it. It just doesn't seem worth it to spend two GP to get a golden age. In the long run those GP could have been spent much better

[Senethro]

In late game with a lot of towns while running universal suffrage, I think I could see a reason to spend a Great Artist and my 8th Great Scientist.

[The keeper]

The more cities you have, the more a golden age will profit you. If I am about to go to war, I like to start a golden age (given the appropiate great people and lack of things to do with them) so I have the extra production and gold to jumpstart the war.

[BigFree]

Mid to late late game is the only time to use your GP's for GA's. Otherwise your population is just to low to really reap the benefits.

[Tokyo Sexwale]

Yeah, GAs are rubbish, just rubbish in Civ4. IMHO their length should be doubled to make them worthwhile. Even on marathon I never use them. In the late game I still prefer using GPs as SSs.... I'm a bit disappointed really because I loved it when I got a GA in Civ3... meant I could do something or actually change strategy because of them.

[fed1943]

IMO,with Taj yes,with 2GL no.
Best regards,

[Shaka II]

I like to get two golden ages, one with Taj Majal, and one with 2 GPs. It depends on what the other uses are for the GPs. If they want to discover theology, or divine right, I'll burn them for the GA instead. I prefer to use great scientists for academies in the early to mid game, and great engineers for wonders. So, when I have an artist without a major use, I'll wait for a different type for my GA. Great merchants are very nice for upgrading your army, so I like to discover economics before anyone else.

How effective your GA is depends on how large your civ is. A large civ benefits proportionately more than a small civ. So, a mid game GA can be quite powerful for the expansionist civ. And the effects occur very rapidly, unlike the long wait for the return on investment of buildings. There are times in the game where key opportunities for expansion arise, and a GA can allow taking advantage of such opportunities.

Bureaucracy, is the opposite effect. It works great for the small civ, but not so well for the large civ. So,you want Beureaucracy while you are small, and a GA or two when you are big. It's really nice to get back to back GAs by burning two GPs and then complete Taj Mahal. This is the best era for the GA, as you head for chemistry or have it already, and start pumping out grenadiers and cannons to make the most strategically important moves in the game.

[MasterDave]

I would not pay one GP for a golden age, much less two. I will build the Taj Mahal on occasions where there is not a better wonder available, or when I am going for a cultural victory (where every World Wonder is important for the 6 plus culture they generate!).

[Shaka II]

I checked a game that I think is a good example for the GA (pangea/standard/marathon/emperor/Tokugawa), where there were 29 cities. I had two almost back to back GA's the second one intiated by building Taj Mahal, which on marathon is 2100 hammers. With 2 turns left on my GA in 1308AD, the city production total was 422 hammers and the total gold production was 1179. Checking 2 turns later in 1312AD, the totals were 276 hammers and 960 gold. The net difference per turn was 146 hammers and 219 gold. The total gain for 16 turns was 2336 hammers and 3504 gold.

GA prod | GA gold | nonGA prod | nonGA gold | net prod | net gold | total prod | total gold
422 1179 276 960 146 219 2336 3504

So, the total hammer gain was slightly more than the cost of producing the Taj Mahal, while the gold gain was a hefty 3504 gold. Not an overwhelming amount, but a good gain, maybe about what a great merchant might yield who didn't quite make it to the far side of the world.

Things are ratiometric or at least are supposed to be, so a GA on normal is 8 turns and should yield similar benefits relative to the costs of the TJ, which on normal speed should be 1/3 of the cost on marathon or 700 hammers. Oops! So why are GA's only 16 turns on marathon? Shouldn't they be 3 * 8 = 24 turns?

I checked the game I'm playing right now (pangea/standard/marathon/emperor/Mao). In 955AD a Golden Age started with a great scientist who wanted to discover 5364 beakers toward Astronomy and a great prophet. I had different plans, that didn't include Astronomy. But in this game I only had 14 cities, so my GA didn't have nearly as good a gain. But it occurred at a critical point that allowed me to take over America, adding a third onto the size of my empire, and capturing the Pyramids allowing a switch to Representation, and now to Police State. Computing the total gain, it was only 896 hammers and 1520 gold. So it wasn't a great gain by comparison to the Japanese game, but it came at a critical time, putting me into position to take Persia on the other side of America, and coasting to domination by 1300AD. Sometimes timing is more important than absolute gains.

So GA's have there uses, mostly for mid to late game and for large empires, unless there really aren't great uses for the great people (then burn 'em ). Taj Mahal requires a significant empire to pay back the hammers or equivalent in gold (about a 1:3 ratio typically). Then there is the culture aspect for the culture victory player to consider.