Need tips on come from behind win.

[Rook]

Well actually I'm the lead in score and population, but I feel it won't last. Cyrus has it out for me and his military power is almost twice that of mine according to the graph. It's 1700 and my best units are grenadier and cavalry. Several of my opponents are 6 or 7 techs ahead of me and have rifles. I'm sure infantry is not far behind. Not to mention they all hate me.

My problem is I expanded too fast and got bogged down financially. However, I have a lot of land and several good cities. My research is at 60% right now and improving. I think a good player could salvage the game.

I'd love to hear your tips on strategy for this.

[make]

Hi Rook,

It sounds like you are in a winnerposition. In most of my games (emperor), I rarely get a techlead before infantry, and it hasnt stopped me so far.

Try and focus on getting youre research up to 70%.

Check F9 demographics. You want to be in the top 3 on the GNP. 2 better, 1. youre an almost sure winner.

Build more cottages if you dont have enough. Build markets and banks in any city that produces over 4 cpt. Try and make atleast 1 friend with open borders to get some foreign traderoutes going.

Also courthouses is important to reduce maintinance.

As long as Cyrus dosnt get infantry ages before you, you should be fine with grenadiers and cavalry.

You should ofcourse make Assemblyline youre research priority nr.1., to try to get it before Cyrus.

Attack rifles with grenadiers.
Attack grenadiers with cavalry.

It just sounds like you dont have enough of them. You need to strengthen youre military very soon.

As a rule of thumb I say,
2 garrisons in any city that is far away from the front and inland.
3 garrisons in any coastal city
4 garrisons in any frontier citys
5+ garrisons in any city that enemys can sneakattack.
10+ unit as a standing army.

I also recommend having atleast 1 cannon in every second city to deal with possible large stacks.

I also recommend protecting every sea resource with atleast 1 frigate at this stage, and have 2+ as a strikeforce.

Hope I could be of assistance.
Good luck to you.

[Swiss Pauli]

Post up a save and I'm sure there'll be a game doctor who'll look at it.

If that's not possible then some more detail on the game would be good: lay of the land, why you're so unpopular, etc.

Make's points are all good, but you might need to rush some of the military if Cyrus borders you. If war does happen then switch to Nationalism to draft units.

If you can haul yourself back in contention then a space race win would be your best bet, maybe using t'internet to grab techs.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by make
Hi Rook,

As a rule of thumb I say,
2 garrisons in any city that is far away from the front and inland.
3 garrisons in any coastal city
4 garrisons in any frontier citys
5+ garrisons in any city that enemys can sneakattack.
10+ unit as a standing army.

I also recommend having atleast 1 cannon in every second city to deal with possible large stacks.

I also recommend protecting every sea resource with atleast 1 frigate at this stage, and have 2+ as a strikeforce.

Hope I could be of assistance.
Good luck to you.

For me a single unit garrison is enough unless I need them to keep the people happy or am uneasy about the behaviour/movement of potentially hostile neighbours. Perhaps I might keep units available so that the more vulnerable cities have a second unit as an immediate call. Finally there will be a spare pool of units held central to move quickly to any front and beat back an attacking stack.

I simply can’t justify the cost of running a large military unless it is out earning a return on that investment. Defensive duties, unless temporary, are a pure drain.

And I certainly would not guard each fishing resources with a frigate.

[PaganPaulwhisky]

rook, I am in almost exactly the same position in my game. I'm number one in score by a good 500 pts, but am about 5 techs behind Mansa (monarch level). Cyrus is on my land and giving me trouble but I just beat him to assembly line. I was able to strengthen my position by attacking relentlessly with grenadiers and cannons. Even though they have better units it is pretty easy to take their cities if I bring enough cannons. I completely wiped out the Americans this way when they had infantry vs just cannons and grenadiers.

I've had to waste a ton of units, but I have so many cities that I can keep churning out those cannons. Once I get marines, Ill be able to amphibious attack Mansa like crazy. I think Ill be able to pull out a dom vic. Make sure you keep churning out units and putting pressure on Cyrus and you should win even if hes got a large military.

[make]

Originally posted by couerdelion


For me a single unit garrison is enough unless I need them to keep the people happy or am uneasy about the behaviour/movement of potentially hostile neighbours. Perhaps I might keep units available so that the more vulnerable cities have a second unit as an immediate call. Finally there will be a spare pool of units held central to move quickly to any front and beat back an attacking stack.

I simply can’t justify the cost of running a large military unless it is out earning a return on that investment. Defensive duties, unless temporary, are a pure drain.

And I certainly would not guard each fishing resources with a frigate.

Thats fine if the central spare pool can reach all the coastal cities in one turn to defend against stacks landing on a tile next to a coastal city.
I have never seen the AI do an amphibious assault, I wonder why? Still, I dare not leave only one garrison in coastal cities.

I spread out my units more, so that I can summon aid from neighbore citys if needed.

Sure, It costs more to have more units, but you will be glad you payed fore it when that stack lands somewhere you didnt foresee.

Same goes for frigates. Sure, its expensive to guard the fish and its a waste of money if it turns out nobody ever want to pillage them, but its also expensive to have them pillaged so that the people starve and suffer health.

Maybe Im just a bit to cautios, but better safe than sorry I say.

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by make

Thats fine if the central spare pool can reach all the coastal cities in one turn to defend against stacks landing on a tile next to a coastal city.
I have never seen the AI do an amphibious assault, I wonder why? Still, I dare not leave only one garrison in coastal cities.

I spread out my units more, so that I can summon aid from neighbore citys if needed.

Sure, It costs more to have more units, but you will be glad you payed fore it when that stack lands somewhere you didnt foresee.

Same goes for frigates. Sure, its expensive to guard the fish and its a waste of money if it turns out nobody ever want to pillage them, but its also expensive to have them pillaged so that the people starve and suffer health.

Maybe Im just a bit to cautios, but better safe than sorry I say.

I play pangea mostly, so I usually don't bother with defending my sea resources in favor of a significant land army. The game is won on land in pangea. By the time the AI has caravels and frigates, I have more than enough resources to keep health and happiness, though it is a nuisance to have the AI sitting on my fish with their caravels or frigates. If the game were to go into the modern era, I'd certainly have a substantial navy, but if the game is endinging before the modern era, I'll usually not build a navy. Besides, I'm better at conquering cities and taking away the AI's navy in port.

I appreciate your coastal garrisons though. The AI will make at least one good attempt to take an under defended coastal city, often the capital or other lucrative target. If you don't have rails, and sometimes even if you do, it can be too late. So, one piece of artillery and a couple strong units in the core cities are good insurance. Inland, I'll often have only one garrison though, with my heavy presence along the front line. The biggest exposure is to avoid the single knight or cavalry attack on a city with small cultural borders and one defender. The AI is very good at exploiting these weaknesses, and it's always a surprise to see how far they went in one move.

I believe that I have seen amphibious assaults, and not just by marines. IIRC I've seen tanks shooting directly from the ships before they've beached, though I'm not sure. I could dig up the game, pre V1.52 I think.

[Shaka II]

Re: Need tips on come from behind win.

Originally posted by Rook
Well actually I'm the lead in score and population, but I feel it won't last. Cyrus has it out for me and his military power is almost twice that of mine according to the graph.

That's not a good sign. You have to ramp up towards his level, while building your science potential, which are at odds with one another. Still, the military is the more important, and military technology, i.e., rifling/corporation/assembly line for infantry. You can easily beat the AI if on parity in strength or even at about 80% strength most of the time, but not at 50% of their strength.

Just from the sound of it, this is what I'd do:

Look at the diplomacy screen. See how everyones views you, how everyone views Cyrus, and why they like or dislike each of you. Does he have any reasonably strong enemies? Do you have any tech bribe material? Probably not by the sounds of it. So, you probably can't bribe anyone to take on Cyrus, especially if they are friendly with him, and usually not if they are pleased with him. Check anyway.

I think the safest thing to do is see what religion Cyrus is and change to it. If he practices free religion, you are kind of hosed, as you can't win favor through religion, but at least you're not getting negatives through religion. If he is practicing free religion, i'd switch to that for the low civic cost and science boost. if he isn't practicing free religion, I might use organized religion or theocracy for +2 experience points. You don't want a costly war at this point.

If he makes demands, give in because he has superiority and will use it. What's his favorite civic? Get him up to cautious at least to avoid war. Meanwhile, build up the military closer to parity. Stop building buildings and build units, or he will attack. Go for the space win ultimately, or maybe even time. Being behind in tech in the modern era is not a show stopper by any means, unless you have a lot of powerful enemies.

Next game, be more careful with diplomacy, and stay ahead or equal in tech, as it's a powerful bargaining tool to get what you want diplomatically. Don't let Cyrus get so big in military. In my present game, I bribed Alexander to make war with Washington, who I finished off, and now I'm at war with the next biggest Cyrus, bringing a smaller but significant war ally Victoria in with me (she likes me). I found the Pyramids in New York of all places, so I've switched to police state, and will now convert to 100% military production, even optimizing governors for production, as the game will be over before riflemen hit the scene. It's 1188AD and poor Cyrus doesn't have chemistry or steel.

[Rook]

Wow, Lot of information here.

I'll go into my situation a little more detailed. Its a little long, but you can probably get a better picture of what I am up against. I've only got a 56K modem, so i cringe at the thought of uploading a save file.

I started out playing random civ and I got Kubla and the Mongols. (My previous games have all been Roman and I figured I'd go random to see what I got.)

Anyway, I ended up as the sole owner of a pretty big island. I could see another island to the sout with horses on it, so I researched sailing to get the galley to settle the island and get the horses. Too late, Isabella builds a city and takes the horses, but no worries I find more on my island way up top. I build a city up there and finish exploring. It turns out there are two more medium sized islands with nobody living on them to the north. I'm drooling over all this virgin land. So, I build one city on each island just to secure it for me. However it hurts me 'cause of the distance to palace penalties. I find myself in financial problems. In the meantime, I discover bhuddism which spreads to Isabella. We become fast friends and spend the next milennium in peace. I use the time to try and get my research back up. As the rest of the world is discovering caravels, they find me and Isabella. Most are annoyed with me from the start. Mostly becuase of religious differences. Becuase of my money problems, I am unable to build on all of the land I own. Washington builds a few cities on my big island and Isablella builds some too.
My first war is with Washington and he doesn't do much damage. It lasts about 20 turns and I convince him to bury the hatchet with a world map trade. Also, I increase the size of my miltary to match his.
After the war, I continue to build units. I think I am 3 or 4 in power, but it is all sheer numbers, not unit strength. I have longbowmen, pikemen, macemen etc. I just researched the techs I need for grenadiers and cavalry but I only just started to build them.

And that is where I left off. Cyrus has the largest military power and he keeps on me about giving him tribute and he wants me to stop trading with Isabella. I see suggestions on getting on cyrus' good side. But, I hate kowtowing to this guy. I got my religion and Isabella is my friend. Why should I turn on her?

So, I am gonna try some of the things you all suggest and I will keep you posted. It may be in a day or two. My wife is going to have a baby tomorrow, and there are some things more important than Civ 4. Not many, but some.

[Swiss Pauli]

Well being on an island is good cos you can post sentry caravels to see Cyrus's invasion force coming. This will give you a turn to switch civics to war mode. You could still get blindsided by someone else, mind.

In your situation, I'd switch to free religion to decrease the dislike from Cyrus & co. It also gives extra beakers. Once you're more powerful militarily then you can consider switching back.

You need to get state property ASAP to eliminate distance penalties (Communism tech).

Otherwise, (and more importantly) best wishes to you, your wife and the new arrival!

[Shaka II]

What Swiss Pauli said on all accounts. Free Religion will not alienate Isabella, while lessening the rift between you and Cyrus, and promoting science 10%.

As far as cancelling trade agreements with Isabella, that's up to you. Strategically, it might be best to give in to Cyrus' requests, until you don't have the strength, but I know what it's like to stand on principle, even CivIV principles.

Good luck with the baby, and take a break from the game. We can always come back to Civ, but real life is a one time deal.

[Fallenhero]

Some island defensive tips...

Cannons are cheap equilizers when fighting a superior AI. When the AI invades they usually dump a large stack or two near a weakly defended city. If you can get enough guns there fast enough you can really decimate his attack force with collateral damage. Then you can counter attack with your cav and grenadiers with less losses and more promotions.

On a strategic level railroads become important (pray you have coal) because it easier to concentrate your forces. Once your army is flexible you can get by with less so more can go to raising your economy/Tech. The machine gun is also good at slowing down rampaging cav and the extra hammers don't hurt either.

Once the enemy gets transports all bets are off. Hopefully by then you will have improved diplomatically and in overall numbers making you less of a candidate for invasion.

[Yosho]

Also, see if you can get a defensive alliance with someone significant. AI's are much less likely to go to war with you if you have a defensive alliance, and if you do end up in a war, they're more likely to make peace with you if they have another enemy to worry about. And unlike older civ games, you don't get a diplomatic penalty for bailing out on a war and leaving your ally holding the bag.