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**Loader2k** · February 19, 2006, 16:40

I'm a bit surprised that you're not getting slaughtered by
barbarians already ;-).

Well, you're neglecting the military aspect of your empire a
lot, thus you indeed can only hope that no one will come to
grab some of your cities.

Survival comes first! If you want to stick to your CoL
strategy you could at least research bronze working first,
then found your second city at the copper site and build
axemen instead of warriors.

Also you could set a high production city to do nothing but
build military units. This should keep you relatively safe.

As for the CoL, i'm not sure if this is a valid approach -
while 6 early cities are a lot and you need to do
something about the upkeep, courthouses are so
expensive to build, so i would *guess* that you're falling
behind in tech quite a lot till they are set up, and of course
you're lacking the production for military.

My advice would be to expand less fast and take the
military side more serious. Take it with a grain of salt
though.

**Nacht** · February 19, 2006, 17:03

Re: Starting Strategy Dilemma for Prince and Higher

Originally posted by rkausch
4. Worker (usually way before bronzeworking is discovered, so he's left to automate for a while)

Leaving your first worker automated is a really bad decision.

Below noble pretty much any strategy works. Once you know the basics noble isn't hard either.

You need more than a standard strategy on the higher levels. Make use of your threats and surroundings.

**Sexus R Cerinus** · February 19, 2006, 19:08

Comments I have are:
- put more importance on Bronze Working, need the choppers
- build the Oracle in your second city
- converting to a Religion without military backup is harder (though a religion is not one of your main starting goals)
- check the F9 screen for your military power level, if you are last, we all know what will happen
- after an item completes building, there are usually carryover hammers, use this on a unit => 1 turn

**uberfish** · February 19, 2006, 19:12

The overall strategy of getting Code of Laws from the Oracle to get confucianism IS a sound one, but your research and build orders are letting you down.

You don't need to research the religious techs so early if you don't care about grabbing Buddhism or Hinduism. They are useless to you until you're actually ready to build the Oracle. Instead, I would build a worker right off the bat most of the time, and research towards techs that improve the resources around the starting site. This gives you a much more productive city early on and you'll be in a stronger position when you build the oracle.

You should have 2-3 cities when the Oracle finishes. Make sure your city terrain is improved! Courthouses alone can't support your expansion, you need your cities producing commerce (usually this means at least some cottages) or you will bleed your economy into city maintenance even WITH courthouses. This is probably why your research is slowed down. You should also put that 3rd city at latest by a military resource such as bronze or horses so you can build better units to defend yourself.

It also sounds like you need more workers. One worker per city is a decent rule of thumb. As Nacht said, control them yourself so you can make sure your cities have good squares to work.

**snafuc4** · February 19, 2006, 19:18

From what I've read in here the last few months I would say that there are 2 ways to win, regardless of maptype:

Below noble: pretty much anything works, if you pay attention

Above noble: fix your mind on the winning condition you want & /don't deviate./ Everything is to be poured into gaining that victory. If you miss a few techs, if you don't map the world, if you don't found a religion, so what? They are nice things to have (or gain if you're a conqueror), but they're not essential to your goal

Being the pigheaded idiot that I am I have yet to put this into practice, but most of the informative /strategic/ posts here seem to lead me to this same conclusion

**rkausch** · February 19, 2006, 20:25

Thanks for the tips

Okay, thanks very much for the tips! I'll put them into play asap, and let you know how it comes out!

Rob

**trev** · February 20, 2006, 00:12

Build worker first, then farm or pasture to get quick early population growth. This means that the techs for these actions also need to be prioritized.

**rjmatsleepers** · February 20, 2006, 01:35

Here are my two bits worth.

Pottery is an off path tech as far as the Oracle is concerned, and doesn't give you any short term military strength. I suggest moving it after bronze working.

The cost of your second city rises as the difficulty level increases. Unless you have a lot of money from huts, building an early second city could badly hit your research rate.

Having a worker do nothing useful while you wait to discover bronze working is wasteful. Since you will chop to complete the Oracle, it's probably worth moving mining and bronze working ahead of Writing. If necessary, you can put completion of the Oracle on hold until you discover writing.

I am aware that my views on the number of early cities differ from others expressed here. I can only repeat my experience, that at the higher levels, two or three early cities kill your research rate.

RJM at Sleeper's

**unamablebuiler** · February 20, 2006, 02:51

these are my thoughts on the matter

this is what i would do for washington it is specific for this leader but it should work ok for most leaders if they have fishing or agriculture though mining would help too. my views on research/builds are different to what alot of people say

research order
wheel
pottery
mining
bronze
writing => COL(beelining)

builds
warrior
warrior
worker
settler (chop rushed)
then either annother settler chopped or units chopped
if i can't see readily availble copper i would go for archery after writing you need units with a defense against axes

it is very similar to your method the only difference being religion i wolud go for an early religion if i had mysticism but otherwise i can wait for a bit.

the worker builds cottages and chops though if i can use a reource imediatley it is hooked up. the worker also mines any hill to count the lost productivity from choping trees, if there are no hills the best thing is to leave a couple of trres untouched
i get COL(code of laws) around 8-900 BC then look to either alphabet animal husbandry or occasionally theology If i can manage to get the oracle as the ai builds it round this time ussually i then slingshot. even if a slingshot fails you are in a good position to pick up alphabet and then trade using COL or anything i pick up on the way

IMO chop rushing will get a faster start than just about anything else. if you can afford it one or two workers on automate trade network helps with resources and defences the rest can be done manually

if you are organised or financial it will help with the costs slightly and give you an extra city before expenses really bite.

Sentries help keep the barbs down but if they get through you will need solid defenses to survive.

i think the 3 first objectives are survival, economy, expansion.

survival is the most important followed by economy then expansion though it will change if i see expansion that must be done to ensure that one of the other 2 will be met.

with a strong economy you will be able to support a bigger millitary and more cities.

a pair or rules i use to determine the expansion for washington on prince first 2 cities build 2 setters each
every city builds one settler if cash flow is positive and i have a site ready.

hope this helps

**Alkis2** · February 20, 2006, 07:23

I dare say that if you ask 10 Masters what to research first they will all say Bronze working. The only exception is when you want to try get a religion.

About your build order, build a worker early, you delay it far too much. Also, never automate your first worker. I have them on manual control from start to end.

Though getting CoL with the Oracle is not bad, there are some other strategies, called slingshots which are very interesting. Try some of them and see if you like them.

If you are attacked it's not the end of the World, you can still defend (especially if you have BW). Even without copper you can still chop and pop rush units.

**PaganPaulwhisky** · February 20, 2006, 10:10

Prince and below your strategy will work quite will I'm sure, but once you get to monarch you really have to look at things differently. I generally only play monarch and above and have had good success on monarch at least. I generally put much less emphasis on expansion on this level since maintenance really starts to be a problem here.

My early goal is to get two cities up and running and producing units as fast as possible. I almost always shoot for bronze working ASAP as this tech is just too good to pass up. You can utilize pop and chop much better than the AI and this is the absolute best way to get ahead in the early game against the comp if you have enemies near by. It also makes things much easier if you can find bronze and beat the AI to securing this resource. Once I get two decent cities up I start cranking axes or the best unit available. I let the AI build cities for me and start taking them. Once I get to five or six, I sue for peace and then research towards COL/Civ service or construction for catapults. I usually fall a bit behind in tech at the beginning, but catch up after discovering alphabet.

Slingshots are very effective sometimes, but I prefer to play it safe and go a different route. I like the prophet fueled slingshot to CS much better than wasting time to build the oracle. Units are the best investment on these levels I think. Don't sweat it if you get way behind in techs. There is plenty of time to catch up at least on monarch. Above monarch though you may want to try something else as I can't find a winning strategy yet.

**Son of David** · February 20, 2006, 10:16

If I have good terrain like flood plains around my initial city, and I am using a civ without mysticism, I'll usually go for pottery first - to build cottages AND to get a hold of the granary, which makes your city grow 50% quicker.

That's a powerful combination, granary, high food, lots of coins, and pop-rushing.

**uberfish** · February 20, 2006, 14:12

Originally posted by Alkis2
I dare say that if you ask 10 Masters what to research first they will all say Bronze working. The only exception is when you want to try get a religion.

BW is probably the single most powerful early tech but it's often wrong to beeline straight for it...

If you have a good food resource nearby, developing it first can leave you in a stronger position.

If you have a low commerce start, chop rushing a second city early can be just counterproductive as your early research rate gets killed by the maintainence without Fishing/Pottery.

On some slingshot builds, the timing is so tight that you have to skip bronze until later.

Basically there's no strategy that fits every starting position and civ.

**borntosoul** · February 21, 2006, 06:41

like some of the others have said- build a worker first and research techs that best suit the land around your city. if you can get 2 or 3 cities working efficiently and as fast as possible then most of the work is done. get bronze working and pump out axe men, look to take another two cities from the nearest or weakest neighbour (before their cities get a big defence bonus) then make piece with them (for a price). before you know it you have 5 cities. work and grow them as efficiently as possible (with a worker on each one). by this time you should have catapults and enough cash to support more cities- go out and get atleast another two cities (take you upto 7). then you can go from there. thats whats been working for me so far.