Some general strategy/gameplay questions

[Gueron]

I have been reading this board for a while, even posting from time to time, and I have a few general questions.

I seem to have misplaced the manual, I guess I'll have to look for it tomorrow, when I get home, and after I get some rest.

1. When a unit is upgraded, is the experience that the unit has lost? The upgraded skills? What if the unit had been fortified, does it lose it's fortification bonus until it can fortify for five(?) turns.

2. Verifying: Vertical Expansion is when you focus on a few cities and just build them up, Horizontal Expansion is making/taking cities?

3. Slingshot is synonomous with beeline. It is a strategy that is designed to gain high level technologies quickly.

4. Is it possible to take a barbarian city culturally? I have tried this from time to time, but in the end, it seems more efficient to throw away a few units, and suffer the anarchy for the required turns to get a city.

5. What is the best way to gain experience for units? Would micromanaging the attacks be the best way, and using a few weaker units to attack before giving your target unit the kill? Or is there a better way?

6. Is there anywhere that gives a chart for unit upgrades. I've noticed that Cavalry will upgrade to gunships, and that Longbowmen seem to be a dead end.

7. Which maps have impassable borders? I suspect the Highlands map does, but I've never played it, as I usually play Terra or Continents, both Huge.

8. I've noticed that some people talk about setting the number of AI(sort of) opponents, I've never been given the option, so is that based upon customizing the games?

9. I enrolled in the Crossfire(X-Fire)(?) service, when I was prompted, with the intention of playing multiplayer. How does this work? I can't for the life of me figure out how anyone would have time to play a game multiplayer, save possibly on a LAN.

G.

[Quillan]

I'll answer what I can:

1) If a unit has more than 10 XP when you upgrade it, it drops down to 10 XP. It does not lose any promotions it already has. It also still has to get to the same number of XP to get its next promotion as it did before the upgrade. Example, you have a knight that is at 16/17 and you upgrade it to cavalry. It will now be 10/17. If it were at 17/26 it would now be 10/26, so you can be losing quite a bit. Every unit I have upgraded that was fortified was active the next turn, but I didn't check to see if the fortification bonus had been lost, so I don't know that one.

2) Vertical expansion is growing the cities you have. Horizontal is getting more. Neither prohibits the other; you can do both at the same time.

3) Slingshot > beeline. A slingshot uses some game effect to get to a tech faster than you could research it. If you've finished Code of Laws before you complete the Oracle, you can get Civil Service as your free tech. That can translate to a one or even zero turn research time.

4) I do not know about this one. Barbarian cities spring up away from your own borders. You'd have to deliberately plant a new city near a barbarian city to try this out. I'd rather just take it and use my settler someplace else.

5) It depends. The XP you earn seems based on the comparative strengths of the units. A warrior that attacks a warrior and wins earns 2 XP. If you attack a damaged warrior that is down to a strength of 0.5 you only get 1 XP. Softening up units is a fair tactic, if you're trying to earn XP for a weaker unit (say you're trying for the magic 17 XP that allows you to build West Point), but on the whole I'd recommend simply picking fights you're likely to win whenever possible. You have to live to earn XP.

6) It's listed in the civilopedia, though only on a per unit basis, not as a chart. Longbows will upgrade, by the way. They can become riflemen or grenadiers, infantry or mech infantry IIRC. The upgrade path skips musketmen for some reason.

7) Don't know.

8) Yes, this is available under the Custom Game option.

9) I don't play MP in Civ, so I can't answer this one either.

[Gueron]

Thanks for the replies.

Hm, 17 xps? is that the level 5? I have never managed to build West point and I've always looked for it.

As far as xps earned, are the comparitive strengths used. I mean a warrior against a weakened swordsman. If so, should I attack with a weakened unit and hope for the best, or does this not help?

G.

[rjmatsleepers]

Re: Some general strategy/gameplay questions

Originally posted by Gueron
4. Is it possible to take a barbarian city culturally? I have tried this from time to time, but in the end, it seems more efficient to throw away a few units, and suffer the anarchy for the required turns to get a city.


G.

It is possible to take a barbarian city by culture. Actually, it seems to be a bit easier than taking an AI civ. They seem to revolt more easily once they slip below 50% barb. On the other hand, I think you are right. Generally, it is "more efficient to throw away a few units, and suffer the anarchy for the required turns to get a city". I suppose it depends how bothersome the city is. And there is the possibility that another civ will step in and capture it while you're building up the culture.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Blake]

7. Which maps have impassable borders? I suspect the Highlands map does, but I've never played it, as I usually play Terra or Continents, both Huge.

Highlands, Oasis and Great Plains.

[Gueron]

A few more questions, that have occurred to me since?

When you ask a nation to declare war on another nation, are you required (or made) to declare war on that same nation? I was wondering if I could get a (sort of ally to declare war on one nation while I take care of a different one.

If you get a nation to declare war at your request, does that cancel any defensive pact that you have with them? In Civ III I know you could form a pact with a friendly nation to attack another nation.

I am not clear on Great person points? If a city is producing a great person, does it divide the points among the potential great person types, or does one type of point take precedence, or is it more like a queue, where one type of point is generated, and then a second, a third through how many are needed, and back to the first type?

I've played some games where I've gotten into the modern age. and though a temple or some other sort of religious building shows up in the choices to build but it is greyed out. I don't understand why a general purpose building should be greyed out.

Other than courthouses, what are some sound strategies for reducing maintenance costs?

Thanks.

[Verrucosus]

Playing in a flat world is quite a change of pace. These map scripts are are more specific, so it should be possible to discuss strategy in more detail than for standard maps. I have played an "Inland Sea" map (also flat) and it turned out a very balanced game with all the AI civs at similar strength for much of the game. I don't recall reading any threads regarding strategy for a specific flat world, but there have been comments that Highland maps are rather challenging. (By the way, a space victory must have a particular flavour: "Okay, we don't really feel like conquering all these mountains, so let's just blast off into space and go settle a real planet!")

[Verrucosus]

I'm unsure about the diplomacy questions.

- Great Person Points: These are accumulated each turn from the relevant specialists and wonders in the city. The ratio of the various types of points determines the chance that a Great Person of a given type appears when enough points have been accumulated. Based on that probability, the Great Person is generated at random.

- Greyed-out religious buildings: Cathedral-type buildings are greyed out until the required number of temples (3 temples/cathedral) has been built. Also, buildings for a specific religion can only be built if that religion is present not just in the empire, but also in the city itself.

- The distance factor of maintenance costs can be reduced by building the Forbidden City or Versailles (or even moving the Palace) nearby. Connecting the city to the trade network also seems to reduce maintenance.

[Shaka II]

Re: A few more questions, that have occurred to me since?

Originally posted by Gueron
When you ask a nation to declare war on another nation, are you required (or made) to declare war on that same nation? I was wondering if I could get a (sort of ally to declare war on one nation while I take care of a different one.

If you get a nation to declare war at your request, does that cancel any defensive pact that you have with them? In Civ III I know you could form a pact with a friendly nation to attack another nation.

If you or your defense pact partner declare war, it nullifies the pact. One of you has to be attacked to activate it. Also, you can not establish a defense pact when you are at war. But if you have tech and see that the enemy has some enemies, it's often possible to bribe another civ into the war.

Diplomacy is key to the game in that sense. I try to keep one AI civ from breaking away from the pack, in tech, power, points, or land area, or getting too friendly with another strong civ. If you're a tech leader, then you can usually bribe a civ to attack without getting dragged into the war yourself, sometimes even a change in faith may be required. However, you are often asked by your mercenary civ to help out with the war. Doing so will earn favor with them from your "mutual struggle". Not offering help costs you "you refused to help us". If the war coincides with a strong point in my military development, and it makes sense to get involved, e.g., adjacent civ that should really be part of my empire, then I'll usually wait about 10 turns for the dust to settle and go in for a land grab. I just don't like the big counter attack if you precipitate the war (protect those villages and towns). Bribing an AI civ means he gets the big counter attack, while I get to come in through the back door.

[Gueron]

Re: Re: A few more questions, that have occurred to me since?

Originally posted by Shaka II


If you or your defense pact partner declare war, it nullifies the pact. One of you has to be attacked to activate it. Also, you can not establish a defense pact when you are at war. But if you have tech and see that the enemy has some enemies, it's often possible to bribe another civ into the war.

So what happens if you bribe an enemy to attack a Defensive Pact partner, assuming it is possible?

In that case, is the Defensive Pact invalidated? Or are you able to attack the person you bribed, because he declared war on a Defensive Partner.

I ask because, in my most recent game (I was playing Aztec, Continents) Alexander asked me to attack Saladin, and I refused, because, thought I would have been happy to attack Saladin, I feared Alexander would then declare war on me, throwing me into a two front war, from one of my particularly weaker areas.

In that game, I was then asked by Saladin to attack Alexander, again refusing, though I would have gladly attacked Alexander (My three targets at the time were Saladin/Qin/Alexander, all of who were "annoyed" with me) and I was building up my military along the Arabian/Chinese front. I did end up attacking Saladin, at the request of Rome, and taking him down to one one-square island city (which I found only because I put a spy in the last city I knew about before taking it), when I finally sued for peace because I had no marines.

The only nation that benefited from my blitzing attack (call it about 10-15 turns, as I had Modern Armor and he didn't) was Frederick, who has been pleased/friendly with me since we met in around 3900 BC, as he had three cities bordering one side of Saladin's kingdom, and I rushed them in the first two turns of the war, without having a chance to absorb them, as I was rushing.

Sorry for the narrative, it has been my second best offensive since I started playing, the other being the Jaguar Rush at the beginning of the same game to take out Isabella.

G.

[-SafaN-]

5) It depends. The XP you earn seems based on the comparative strengths of the units. A warrior that attacks a warrior and wins earns 2 XP. If you attack a damaged warrior that is down to a strength of 0.5 you only get 1 XP. Softening up units is a fair tactic, if you're trying to earn XP for a weaker unit (say you're trying for the magic 17 XP that allows you to build West Point), but on the whole I'd recommend simply picking fights you're likely to win whenever possible. You have to live to earn XP

I like flanking because of this. U have 60% chance to retreat and if the rang is doing weird u may have 15 xp in one kill

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Blake

Highlands, Oasis and Great Plains.

Inland Sea as well.

[Urban Ranger]

Re: A few more questions, that have occurred to me since?

Originally posted by Gueron
When you ask a nation to declare war on another nation, are you required (or made) to declare war on that same nation?

No.

In one game I kept getting Alexander to beat on Isabella while I was busily building my empire. This stopped that annoying pest from expanding (particularly in my direction) until I got strong enough to roll her over.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Verrucosus
- Great Person Points: These are accumulated each turn from the relevant specialists and wonders in the city. The ratio of the various types of points determines the chance that a Great Person of a given type appears when enough points have been accumulated. Based on that probability, the Great Person is generated at random.

Are you sure about this? I have seen a post in another thread that suggests it is the source of the points that matters not the number. For example, if you are getting 2 points from (say) Stonehenge and 3 points from a scientists, you are getting 5 points per turn, but only a 50% chance of a great scientist. Adding a second scientist would get you a great person earlier, but not change the probabilities. Has anyone checked this?

RJM at Sleeper's

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
Are you sure about this? I have seen a post in another thread that suggests it is the source of the points that matters not the number. For example, if you are getting 2 points from (say) Stonehenge and 3 points from a scientists, you are getting 5 points per turn, but only a 50% chance of a great scientist. Adding a second scientist would get you a great person earlier, but not change the probabilities. Has anyone checked this?

If you put the mouse pointer over the GPP bar, it gives you a breakdown of the probabilities of various GP you'll get next.