Trading and relations.

[Saurus]

I think the new diplomatic model in CIV IV is a lot of fun but not entirely clear always.

One strange thing is that I have often noticed is that sometimes when traiding, A.I rewards you with a +1 or +2 or +whatever to relations becouse of "Trading relations beeing fair and forthright"
However, at other times, when asked what would make a deal work, the A.I then proposes something witch I accept, whereby our diplomatic "points" stays the same ... but A.I mood changes (from Pleased to Cautious or from Cautious to Annoyed) ...

Could it be so that A.I in fact sees you in a negative light if you only accept the minumum A.I is offering?
If so, then why does this only affect A.I mood and not actual A.I relation "points"?


Diplomacy-points does not seem to be the main factor when deciding A.I mood toward a given player.
For instance, In my current game A.I Tokugawa is pleased toward Qin even if their diplomatic points is at
-2 (+1 for many years of peace and -3 for having different religions).


Here is Yet another strange thing:

In one game, I traded tech with Alexander.
Cyrus did not like this and our relations got a -3 penalty for "me having traded with his worst enemy")
Cyrus and Alexander was not at war but they did not like each other so I thought everything was as it was supposed to be.
However then during the next game A.I Hatsepshut and A.I Napoleon fought each other. I traded tech with Hatsepshut but Napoleon did not mind this.

The diplo-penalty you get from trading seems just be random and if you get a diplo penalty, then it is still random if this affects the A.I mood or not.

[axisworks]

I've had similar luck trying to understand how it works. I got a -2 from Alexander tonight because I traded clams for some gold to a guy he was at war with a few turns later, and in other games I've had no penalty trading with people that 2 of my allies were currently in wars with. The whole diplomatic side to the game is really awesome, don't get me wrong, but it's a bit frustrating at times.

[axisworks]

I should also add... I wish there was an easier way to find out one of the AI's opinions on the other world leaders, rather than having to go through a repetitive question-answer dialogue screen.

[MikeH]

Er you can...

There is a graphic that has all the leaders heads with lines pointing to the other leaders indicating how they feel about them. But I can't remember how you get to it. I think it's through one of the advisor icons on the top right.

[johnmcd]

Giving someone 10 gold the first time you meet them often gives you a plus one or two out of the box which can be invaluable.

The -4 you have traded with our worst enemy does feel very hard to get rid of once you have it though. Even cancelling deals or going to war with the worst enemy does not seem to mollify the sulking AI.

[Saurus]

Originally posted by axisworks
I should also add... I wish there was an easier way to find out one of the AI's opinions on the other world leaders, rather than having to go through a repetitive question-answer dialogue screen.

You can do this in the diplo-screen. Just klick on a given leader and his opinions toward all other leaders will show up.

However, while you can se if someone is pleased at someone you will have a hard finding out WHY someone is pleased or angry at someone. Those + and - numbers do still appear, but the A.I stance is not determined by theese numbers. As I pointed out earlier, Tokugawas "Pleased" toward Qin with a total of "-2" diplopoints is still something of a mystery to me.

[couerdelion]

Worst enemy trading

I believe the problem only occurs when you trade with that civilisation’s least liked civilisation. In the situations given earlier, Napoleon may have simply disliked someone more than Hatsheput. In fact, I sometimes think that his declarations of war are his way of showing affection rather than any dislike of another leader.

Usually you’ll find at least half of the civs fall into someone’s most hated category and you probably then have to decide who it is you want to be able to trade with since it can be fairly difficult to change their opinions even if you only make a tactical tech swap. As a basic rule you should try, on discovering a new civ, to check first what other civs think about them. Making quick trades from what is available can come back to haunt you if you then risk losing more trading partners.

[Quillan]

It's hard to tell. Each AI seems to pick a "most hated enemy" each game. They don't pick it until they have met other civs, either. As an example, suppose you are trying to stay on Alexander's good side. You check the diplomacy screen, and find out that Alex is annoyed with Monty, Hattie, and Cyrus. Which of these three is his "worst enemy"? I don't think it's possible to find out, until you trade with one of them and take the diplomatic hit for doing so. If there is one with a much lower outlook than others (furious with Monty while cautious or better with everyone else) then it's pretty clear, but if two or more are at the same level, is there any way to tell which one is the worst?