Letting the computer recomend city sites feels like cheating

[Rancidlunchmeat]

Well.. definately, I've noticed this too.

I used to completely ignore the recommendations because I'd see a better spot one or two moves away. A couple new techs later, sure enough! If I would have built where the AI recommended originally, I'd have a much better city.

But I do also agree that it's placement routine is slightly buggered, or atleast doesn't take into account all the same factors that you might want. I've ignored the AI recommendations for various reasons and have been happy about it because I needed access to say.. bronze and marble NOW and not when the city hits its third expansion.

But, for the most part, the recommended sites are really the preferred spot.

[JimG]

Last night I ignored the blue circle 'cos I wanted access to the coast & its fish. When oil pops up later - guess what - if i'd take the blue circle it would have been the only city with oil already in its borders. Now I've got to settle a very marginal city elsewhere to get some...

[padillah]

I plan on doing a test tonight. I will generate a blank map, just grass. Go into WorldBuilder and set up a location as a start with 1 dye two squares away to the left and 2 dyes three squares away to the right (so they are in the initial FOW and see where it suggests I go. Of course it may very well suggest both places.

Then I'll make a map with 2 dye two squares to the left and three iron three squares away to the right and see what the suggestion is.

I'll publish the maps so others can see what happens for them. This should answer the question once and for all.

Tom P.

[Rancidlunchmeat]

Would that really be a satisifactory test though?

How about making two spots.. one with spice hidden in the FOW and another with spice and iron hidden in the FOW.

Then, the only thing different about the two spots is access to a resource that you don't have the tech for that shouldn't influence the computer's suggestions.

Hmm.. not sure that would prove anything either, because then it would just suggest both city sites.

Maybe just make two spots.. one with cows and one with iron. It shouldn't even suggest the iron spot because the AI isn't supposed to 'know' about resources you don't have.. so it should only suggest a single city.. the one with the cows.

Right?

I look forward to your results!

[marvinkosh]

Bear this in mind though.... if there is no one spot that would have netted you all the nearby resources for use by the city, but your cultural borders will eventually allow you to add the non-worked resources to your empire, then a compromise location is worked out.

Possibly.

[padillah]

OK first, my appologies for those that don't like large screen shots but I wanted to keep the screenshots as valid as possible.

Now, what I did was used WP to create a blank world, just Grass, Coast, and Ocean. Then I played the scenario as Asoka (no real reason) just to see where the starting position and suggestion would be: it was kind of bad and the suggestion was to build right where I stood.



So I went into the WorldBuilder and added a horse out in the fog of war:




When I went back it still suggested that I build where I stood. So I went back and added more horses and it still held that I build where I stood. So I added a couple of crab on the other side of the horse and it stayed the same.
Well, tester that I am I had to get the circle to move, so I added whales just out of reach for the square I was in but I could move and get them.



This still didn't get the sugesstion to move.



So I decided that a reload of this scenario would make the AI decide again (I didn't think until later I could probably have simply skipped turns, but that may have influenced the decision too. The recommender might want you to build a city rather than loose more time. This way was more pure.)

When I reloaded sure enough the decision was different, it wasn't there.



So I went to WB and removed the whales and reloaded... still no decision. Then I decided to head for the crabs and see what happened. Well, I finally got a blue circle...



Now realise that I'm currently standing on a horse with a horse to my north and crabs directly east and northeast.




I then placed wheat in the same places as the horses since you don't need to discover anything to see wheat. I won't boor you with the screenshots but nothing changed.

Now, remembering that there is nothing on this map but me and the horses and crab I can say that I do not believe the recommender can see into the FOW nor does it see resources that have not shown up yet.

I don't know what it's criteria ARE so I can't say if following the recommendations is any better than randomly picking a tile but... that's what I get from the tests.

Tom P.

[padillah]

I hate to do this but I found out something, when I loaded up the "horses in FOW and whales out of reach" scenario at first it didn't suggest a build location, so I skipped a turn thinking "what could it hurt"?

Well, it ruined my theory... kinda. It made a new suggestion, but farther away from the whales!



(The whales are there, I just caught them under water.)

So what the heck does that mean? And WHY the suggestion way over to the NW? There's nothing that says I can even GET there from here. The only things on this map are the horses to the east and crabs east of them. The suggestion to the east makes sense if you think the recommender sees resources in the FOW and ones that you can't see. But explain the recommendation to the NW.

Tom P.

[padillah]

Oh, Here's the scenario that I started with if you want to test some other conditions.

AsokaStartAllBlank

Tom P.

[bonscott]

I can't see how it's cheating since I rarely take the suggested tile cause it usually sucks. The suggestion knows nothing about strategic military locations or bottlenecks for example and almost always chooses 1 tile from the coast which is most situations is terrible to do.