Tips for using great people?

[KeiserSose]

I'd be interesting in hearing any pointers or rules of thumb to go by when getting a great person.

Say I'm not interested in using them to discover a tech. Any ideas on when to add them to a city? And how to select which city? (This reminds me I'd be interested in reading ideas abou t"city specialization" as well.)

Usually if I get a great artist I have them go to a city to create a great work. Early in the game use it to expand borders so that I can get access to a resource that is just out of a city's borders, later I do the great work in a city that was recently taken from a different civ in order to get this new city some immediate culture.

[raguas]

Like all things Civ (epecially Civ 4), my first answer is always "it depends."

Do I have many cities, or just a few? Is my capital really huge in comparison to my othercities? Am I running bureaucracy? In that case, I'd probably use the GP as a specialist -- because my capital has the multipliers that will "maximize" what that specialist is doing. (Forge, Library, Parthenon, National Epic, etc.)

However, I also like having multiple centers of industrial production. Is my third city not doing anything? Then maybe assigning the prophet there as a priest is the way to go.

I'm sorry if I'm not being more specific in my answer, but it truly does depend upon the actual exigencies of the situation and how you "feel" things should go. But it is basically a question of maximized efficiency (concentrating on one city), or "spreading the wealth" and having more cities achieve a certain level of productivity.

Basically, until I reach a certain "level" of commerce and industry, I put GPs into my capital, as that really ramps up both commerce and industry (so that my capital can build all those nice wonders, and can continue to drive my commercial engine, fueling all the research I need).

At some point in the game, however, your commercial engine is now chugging along nicely, and you have the Wonders you need. Then it might be the time to enable other cities to increase their productivity. After all, if my capital can produce cavalry every turn, but it's the only city that can do that, I'm still not making all that much. I'd rather have 8 or 9 cities making cavalry every 7 or so turns. (And of course, my capital is still making them every other turn, let's say).

As to when that point is to happen, again I think it's a mater of feel (at least as regards determining where to make a GP a specialist and where).

I hope this reply helps. Sorry if I got a bit wordy there.

[Fallenhero]

One option is to concentrate your GP's into one or two cities. Your goal is to create GP factories that produce GPs at a high rate. If you spread the GPs out you still still get their hammer/coin/beakers bonus but dilute the impact of their GP bonus. Each time any city produces a GP the bar is raised higher, so 4 cities producing around 10 gp points will take longer to produce one than a single city producing 40. Also, as soon a GP is produced the bar is raised everywhere so your three other cities that were close to completion now have a ways to go again.

Also, by concentrating you can maximixe the impact of wonders like the national epic (I think) which raise your output by 100% (I think).

Once you'v got a nice factory going you then have the option to use them in various ways because you'll have another popping out before you know it.

Not every GP gets added to the city. Like you said a great artist can make a good culture bomb, and merchants are better sent abroad. And when you get to the last 1/4 of the game it begins to pay off to use your great scientist to research techs because you won't have the time to get the most out of their per turn beaker bonus

[tetley]

I would love to see someone crunch the numbers, but I haven't liked the specialist use too much, unless maybe it's a merchant. In the early game I like to place an Academy or Shrine. In the mid-game when techs start to cost around 1400, I like to get the tech. And in the late game I like the Golden Age. But if I got an Engineer I'll rush a wonder no matter what stage I'm in.

[The_Paladin]

I've actually done some numbers on the use of great scientists at least. Don't have much time ATM but I will try to summarize the results.

Great Scientist

Specialist - 1 production, 6 beakers
Burn for tech - 1500 + 3 / pop point in entire empire beakers

So which is better? Since scientists are primarily researchers we will ignore that 1 production we get as a specialist from him. It seems natural that the answer to which is better will depend on the time of the game (very early, early, mid, late).

Very early game

Very early game is classified as the time when you only have 1 or 2 cities or small size. Techs currently cost very little (around 500). This means this GS is likely the first great person you have generated.

Since the techs aren't worth much yet... burning for a tech is likely not all that useful. The best he might grant is mathematics... not that great. So the choice is between an academy and a specialist. And IMHO its an easy choice - the academy will get better and better over time and, if used in the capital, already instantly provides practically as many if not more beakers than the specialist.

So very early game = academy.

Early game

Early game is classified as having a small empire (4 - 8 cities, with average size of maybe 4). There are at least a few techs available that cost around 1500. Currently out GS can produce around 1572 research (1500 + 6 * 4 * 3). Since universities aren't around yet, the best beaker multiplier we can get is +85% (lib + academy + monastery). This means our GS specialist could grant us 11.1 beakers / turn.

If we can use our GS to burn a tech worth around 1500 research, that is equivalent to 135 of his specialist turns (i.e., he would generate 1500 research in a city after 135 turns). It would probably actually take somewhat less than 135 turns to make up that 1500 research as more bonuses from universities, etc. would come online at some point during those turns. So lets say he can actually generate that same 1500 research in 100 specialist turns.

Which is better? Well 100 turns is a long time in a game that only has 460. Its going to take 1/4 of the game to get that specialist to start "making a beaker profit". You might come to the conclusion then that using the GS as a specialist grants more total research than burning him, thus a bigger benefit. But remember the axiom, early bonus = bigger bonus. So he might only generate 1500 beakers instantly... but that might have an effective value of 3 or 4 times that, if you use that burnt tech properly.

That burnt tech will accelerate your progress. For example, whereas the specialists get better once universities roll around, the insta-burn may be used to grant universities sooner. So the specialist gets better at universities... but the insta-burn might make your whole empire better by getting universities first! This is just an example - of course you might burn that GS for philo... or for the printing press... or for something totally else. Each of these provides instant new bonuses... and, if used properly, can likely result in a better overall bonus that even the specialist could generate for the remainder of the game.

The other option is to trade that burnt tech around... getting a whole lot of free tech for it. That's also a nice option that amplifies the bonus of the insta-burn (and often wins games if done properly).

Simply put, the specialist allows you to research everything a little bit faster - the burnt tech allows you to get a jump in one area. So if you can use the GS for a tech you want (or will eventually want) burning him is, IMHO, almost always the way to go. If however you can't get a very useful tech, either an academy or a specialist (most likely an academy as it will grant a bigger bonus in any science city) may be the better option. Or just wait till he can give you something you want.

Mid game

Mid game is classified as having a average empire (8 - 16 cities, with average size of maybe 10). Most techs cost at least 1500 (if not more). Currently out GS can produce around 1860 research (1500 + 12 * 10 * 3). The best beaker multiplier we can get is around +210% (lib + academy + monastery + university + oxford). We also might have representation by now. So this means our GS specialist could grant us 27.9 beakers / turn. 1860 research is thus equivalent to approx 67 specialist turns.

I would say mid game is probably around turn 230 (the actual middle of the game). Although this is more blurred as it only takes 67 specialist turns to get a profit out of your GS that way, burning a tech (or part of it) instantly is still appealing for the same reasons as before... acceleration towards better bonuses, more military, more tech (early bonus = better bonus).

Again IMHO if you can get a tech you want from him, burn him. He may help you with astronomy or maybe physics or scientific method.. both of which can lead to quicker bonuses down the line (quicker to get railroad or biology for example). Getting each of those 10 - 15 turns quicker can be a nice, cascading benefit. I would almost never use him as a specialist... even if I couldn't get a tech I wanted, I would rather use him to make an academy as you are almost guaranteed to have a city that makes enough raw commerce to benefit from an academy at this point more than the 27.9 beakers he makes in the oxford city.

Late game

Late game is around turn 350 on. There's not much time left in the game and you are going for the very high cost techs now. I'm not going to bother calculating it but I think, maxed bonus, you can get around 35 beakers / turn from a GS used a specialist. He would also likely grant upwards of at least 2100+ research in an insta-burn now (more likely that number is around 2500 if you have a 30 - 40 city empire). That means it will still take around 67 specialist turns for to get the same amount as you would get from an insta-burn... That's practically the entire remainder of the game! So using him as a specialist is probably not your best choice here. The game will either end before this (not too many games make it to turn 460 with the space race on) or you will run out of things to research.

So again if you can get a tech you want, burn him. If you can't... an academy might be an option if you really have a high commerce city sitting around without one but still it would have to be rather high to make it worth your while. The other option would be to save him for a golden age which, at this point, might be your best option if you can't get a tech you want from him.

So all it all... it depends but for the most my opinion is, based on earlier bonus = better bonus, that insta-burn is superior to specialist in most cases as long as you can get something you want (this is almost always the case). Other times, often academy is better than specialist as well as it can be ramped up to higher levels of beaker production sooner.

Just my 2 commerce (+ multipliers)

[JackRudd]

The other thing to remember is that running the Representation civic tilts the balance slightly towards super-specialists, as does owning the Sistine Chapel wonder.

[Hermann the Lombard]

Originally posted by The_Paladin
I've actually done some numbers on the use of great scientists at least. Don't have much time ATM but I will try to summarize the results.

If that's a quick summary when you don't have much time I'd be scared to see what happens if you had too much time on your hands.

Oh, I see...that would mean that your name is Vel.

[The_Paladin]

Yeah... I started that post when I didn't have much time to write then decided to wait until I did. Guess I forgot to remove that "I don't have much time" comment .

[Yosho]

Also, if you have the chance, it's always nice to build an acadamy or a shrine in either my capital or my national epic city whenever I can as early as I can, because those buildings produce more GPP's as well.

[JackRudd]

If you want to make a superspecialist, then my recommendations would be:

Engineer: Ironworks city
Artist: Hermitage city
Scientist: Oxford city
Merchant: Wall Street city
Prophet: as Engineer or Merchant

[Urban Ranger]

The best use for your first GP (Great Prophet) is to build a holy shrine. This is the place where you eventuallly should build Wall Street. The first GS or three are best used for academies, particularly if you are attempting the CS slingshot. Mechants are probably best used for trade missions, since you can make over 2000 gold easy. Artists I usually retain for later culture bombs.