A response to a sub par start

[unamablebuiler]

during my investigations into slingshots with washington i had this terrible start: the first attempt i i was wiped out by the chinese the second i was behind by muskets to mech inf
is there any possible way to spped things up a bit on my end.

This game is on prince 6 civs huge map continents tropical (i set it up for a CS sling thats why there are only a few civs.)
[IMG][/IMG]

i am miles from any resources other than food no food resources easily visible. barbarians apply pressure inwaves and are often as advanced or more advanced than me

The was i see it CS slingshot is probably beyond my reach though possible funnily enough the failed slign shot attempt was the one i didnt even survive

first objectives are
1) establish 3 cities
2) explore continent and go grabbin huts
3) prevent the los of a city to barbarians
4) start working tiles hopefuly with cottages
5) research the ground work to slingshot and possibly BW

I know i will probably cop alot of flak for the last one its just that I feel that a religion will help somewhat with culture / money

[gus_smedstad]

Post the savegame. Maybe someone will walk it through for you.

I personally don't think this start is all that bad, and I can't even see the full city radius. You have at least 3 tiles with floodplains, and several forested grasslands, and a couple of grassland hills. Washington is Financial, so my immediate reaction on seeing 3 floodplains is to beeline for Pottery and get cottages on them ASAP. As cottages, those 3 tiles will collectively give you 3 surplus food, enough to work 3 mines without stifling growth, and 9 commerce, doubling your research. They'll hit Hamlets rapidly, and pretty soon you'll be generating 20 beakers / turn.

The standard CS slingshot bends over backward to get a library built and 2 scientists hired just to get 17 beakers / turn. You're way ahead of that even before you hit Writing.

- Gus

[Swiss Pauli]

Hop the river to the plains, settle (popping the hut).

If resources are relatively scarce, then I don't see the need to prioritise new cities, especially if the barbs are more than a nuisance.

[gus_smedstad]

I probably wouldn't move. Yes, by settling there we lose a nice forested grassland, but by moving west we lose two grassland hills. Mined, those are a great source of hammers without the high food cost of a plains hill.

Cultural expansion will pop that hut in 5 turns anyway.

- Gus

[unamablebuiler]

here is the save

Btw i settled on the coast for the first 2 attempts
third attempt barbarians came in forces preventing further expansion in any direction- one holy city(religion founded was attacked constantly for 1000 years every turn until it fell even with 4 units 2 archers 2 warriors to 4 axemen.

dont say i didn't warn you.

i tried to get libraries early built 2 each generating 17 per turn but that wasnt till ad

i think i might need to go co BW for chopping early

[samspock]

Post the save. I would like to try. I would start by building cotteges and would not worry about more cities until you have bronzeworking. That way you can see where the copper is and have an idea where to put the second city. Use the two togehter for the CSS (library in capital, chop rush oracle in second city.) Since you don't have an iron based uu (I play Rome a lot!) getting just what you need for the slingshot plus alphabet should net you everything else. Aim for city 3 after it's done and be ready to spam some axemen.

Just being near flood plains should make this a good start. I perfer having a gold hill but this is not too bad.

[Fallenhero]

With all those trees I would make BW a priority. You'll need mining anyway to balance out the flood plains/cottages and chop/slavery options are good to have. Also, as said above, you want to know where that copper is before you put down your second city.

With just a few axemen barbarians turn from a pain into a good training ground for elite troops.

[raguas]

And you can also deploy troops as sentries to keep back the fog of war, to prevent the barbarians from spawning.

Though personally, I like having the barbarians make cities for me. By the time I go after them with my swordsmen, they are still defending with archers at best -- saves me the need to make some settlers.

(And the barbs usually pick good city sites too, in my experience).

[Crossfire]

I will often take both tacks. I will sentry one side to keep the barbs back but let them build cities on the other. That way I get free cities and I know where the attacks will come from.

So, get cottages up asap. Get some mines and BW. Get a second city on copper and use that city to spam axemen and get more settlers built while you get the Oracle in your capitol. I will try this start tonight and post something probably Monday.

[unamablebuiler]

All great suggestions first 6 techs to research would be in any order
mystcism
polytheism or meditation
mining
BW
Wheel
pottery i think i will go religion first then BW i ussually go cottages first.

[gus_smedstad]

Actually, I wouldn't research Mysticism / Meditation / Polytheism until after Pottery and Bronze Working at least, and possibly later. Pushing for an early religion makes more sense if you start with Mysticism. You'll probably get Confucianism when you get Code of Laws.

- Gus

[Blake]

Well I can tell you that's not a bad start *grin*

I played it for a bit, and by about 720AD I hadn't met anyone, but Demographics put my GNP at 3x higher than the best AI.

Didn't bother with a slingshot, just spammed cottages along the river, founded Conf by researching CoL the old fashioned way, founded Taoism too. Got Monarchy and stuffed my cities full of archers for the happiness bonus. Built the Conf shrine, threw up a couple of Acadamies.

No wonders, but who needs wonders with 3x the GNP .

[gus_smedstad]

I played it for a while too, with the idea of documenting it Vel style. I never got 3x GNP (how humiliating) but I was at least 1.5x GNP for much of the time I played, and I had no trouble executing the CS slingshot even with detours to Pottery and Bronze Working.

The problem is that the game conditions are boring. Huge map, Epic speed, low sea level for more land, Tropical so everything seems to be jungle, and only 6 civs. At 1300 AD I had something like a dozen cities and had only covered half "my" jungle area, and the AIs were still digesting their areas. The game just seemed to drag on forever.

The most interesting thing about it is that you don't have any happiness resources in your vicinity, so you have to find ways to make do without. The first one I found was a group of Gems, and it was something like 20 tiles away from your starting area.

- Gus

[unamablebuiler]

i was originally testing for slingshots with wasington and i deleted 1 or 2 civs too many, i ussually play with 7 or 8 on a map this big. any more and it feels like the middle east someone just round the corner you can't negotiate with and endless war yuck.

thats why i posted this map the lack of lux resources until you expand to cover. it was also notable fo its lack of horse and you need to research iron working to get axes

Maybe i like boring corrally, maybe i am boring i can bore anyone anytime i have plenty more were this came from "groan"

if i dont make much sense right now its cause its 4 in the morning here and i cant sleep

Gus my first attempt i didn't even survive and the second i was out gunned modern armour to muskets.
here's attempt 10

[gus_smedstad]

I'll post as much as I did. Maybe you'll find it helpful.

4000 BC - found Washington without moving Settler. Start building Warrior. Research target is Pottery, so we start researching The Wheel. Looks like we only have 2 floodplains, not 3, but that's still going to be good for our research and food production.

3440 BC - discover the Wheel.

3400 BC - finish Warrior, begin Worker.

3040 BC - exploration has shown pigs, rice, sheep, crabs and fish nearby. We have corn in our city radius. We will have no health worries, but happiness will be a concern.

2920 BC - discover Pottery. New priority is Bronze Working, so we begin researching Mining, which we want anyway.

2800 BC - finish worker, begin Warrior. Immediate priority is to put cottages on those flood plains.

2600 BC - our scouting Warrior gets caught by a Panther in the open and survives by sheer luck.

2520 BC - discover Mining, start Bronze Working. Our warrior isn't so lucky with his second Panther. Even though he's in jungle, he's still badly wounded from the last encounter, and dies. He managed to uncover a lot of the map, and we still don't see anything but food resources.