Commerce question

[more_cowbell]

Sorry if this (very basic) question has already been asked but...

Does anyone know which (if any) buildings affect commerce rather then gold?

For example, the bureaucracy civic causes a 50% increase in your commerce income, whereas Wall Street (as I understand it) only increases your gold income by 100%.

Seeings as I usually try to set research at 70% or greater for most of the game, I'm aiming for buildings that increase the commerce much more so then the gold.

Along those lines, does anyone know if a market or bank will increase the commerce or just the gold?

If those buildings only increase gold, then they would be of little value in all but the largest of cities (certainly including the capital where I often have 400 or more commerce by the end of the game.)

Replies are much appreciated.

[Blake]

No buildings do. Well those buildings that work on trade (harbor, airport) sort of do in that they increase commerce, but not as a multiplier.

[rjmatsleepers]

A harbour increases commerce on trade routes and the great lighthouse increases commerce by adding trade routes. Obviously worked villages increase commerce, but I think you meant buildings inside the city.

The happiness and health buildings can increase commerce indirectly by allowing more citizens to work tiles that have commerce.

Other civics besdies bureaucracy also increase commerce as do some technologies. And of course, the financial trait increases commerce

RJM at Sleeper's

[Willem]

Re: Commerce question

Originally posted by more_cowbell
Does anyone know which (if any) buildings affect commerce rather then gold?

There's not really very much difference between the two, more gold means more commerce. You can't have one without the other.

[more_cowbell]

Thanks for the replies. One follow-up question, please. In my most recent game, my capital has pop of 11 (maybe my largest city, or close to it), yet its trade routes are a craptastic 1+ non international, whereas my costal cities all have 5+ or more trade routes. All my cities are connected an I'm at least connected by road to my neighbor on the continent. My capital is not a costal city, but it should be able to trade with bigger international cities, no?

Anyone have any ideas? (this is really hurting my research, obviously)

[-SafaN-]

u got lighthouse/collossus? they affect coastal cities only

[Willem]

Originally posted by more_cowbell
Thanks for the replies. One follow-up question, please. In my most recent game, my capital has pop of 11 (maybe my largest city, or close to it), yet its trade routes are a craptastic 1+ non international, whereas my costal cities all have 5+ or more trade routes. All my cities are connected an I'm at least connected by road to my neighbor on the continent. My capital is not a costal city, but it should be able to trade with bigger international cities, no?

Anyone have any ideas? (this is really hurting my research, obviously)

Well it stands to reason that your coastal cities end up with more international trade than your inland ones. Look at real life. An inland city ships it's products to the sea port, and that city in turn is the one that makes the connections with international cities. The first city in the path of the other civ is bound to get most of the trade.

[rjmatsleepers]

I had assumed that the size of the trade routes were proportional to the base commerce, but this doesnt seem to be the case. I checked a save, and it shows the same thing that more_cowbell found - coastal cities get more trade. Is it just that coastal cities get allocated routes before inland cities?

And this invites the question - what can we do to increase the size of our inland trade routes?

RJM at Sleeper's

[more_cowbell]

I guess this also begs the question of if it would be worthwhile to build a palace on a costal city (to get the bureacracy bonus for commerce) and build the great library/newtons etc there. I suppose that it would depend on how big your trade routes are on a costal city vs your original capital by the time you are ready to build the great library?

Some interesting things to think about, anyways.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by more_cowbell
I guess this also begs the question of if it would be worthwhile to build a palace on a costal city (to get the bureacracy bonus for commerce) and build the great library/newtons etc there. I suppose that it would depend on how big your trade routes are on a costal city vs your original capital by the time you are ready to build the great library?

Some interesting things to think about, anyways.

I believe the bureaucracy bonus is multiplicative - ie it increases your commerce by 50% before adding the other bonuses which then apply to the enhanced total. Since the coastal site also benefits from a harbour, we could be talking about 5 extra commerce per route; 20 commerce from 4 routes; 30 commerce after bureaucracy bonus; 110 beakers with a good set of buildings. Sounds like moving the capital is worthwhile to me.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I had assumed that the size of the trade routes were proportional to the base commerce, but this doesnt seem to be the case. I checked a save, and it shows the same thing that more_cowbell found - coastal cities get more trade. Is it just that coastal cities get allocated routes before inland cities?

If you get the Great Lighthouse and/or the Colossus coastal trade will be increased.

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
And this invites the question - what can we do to increase the size of our inland trade routes?

Free Market

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

If you get the Great Lighthouse and/or the Colossus coastal trade will be increased.

Yes, but even without either of these, coastal trade is higher than inland trade. Why is this? What is the algorithm that determines the size of a trade route?

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Free Market (will increase inland trade)

Free Market adds a trade route to each city doesn't it? So while the inland city gets an extra route (just like the coastal city), the size of each route doesn't increase. Is there anything I can do to increase the size of the trade route itself? Moving my workers around doesn't seem to have an effect, but perhaps it's recalculated only at the start of a turn.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
Yes, but even without either of these, coastal trade is higher than inland trade. Why is this? What is the algorithm that determines the size of a trade route?

Costal cities trade with foreign cities and inland cities trades with other cities of your own nation. As a result, coastal cities do better. Then you can build harbours and such to further boost the commerce.

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
Free Market adds a trade route to each city doesn't it? So while the inland city gets an extra route (just like the coastal city), the size of each route doesn't increase. Is there anything I can do to increase the size of the trade route itself? Moving my workers around doesn't seem to have an effect, but perhaps it's recalculated only at the start of a turn.

I reckon the amount of trade is a function of:

1. Distance between the cities
2. Foreign vs local
3. Size of the two cities

So there's not much you can do, except growing your cities. Finding empires overseas and have Open Borders Agreement with them is also a good idea.

[more_cowbell]

So, can an inland city ONLY trade with your own cities, then?

If you have an AI civ on your continent can an inland city trade with it? My current game has a couple of AI civs on my continent, neither of whom are trading with my capital despite being connected by roads/rivers.

If thats the case, then I wonder if its worthwhile to move your starting captial site to a coastal site at the games beginning because you are missing out on a hella large amount of research by not having good trade routes in your capital.

I'll have to look into this...

[Willem]

Originally posted by more_cowbell
If thats the case, then I wonder if its worthwhile to move your starting captial site to a coastal site at the games beginning because you are missing out on a hella large amount of research by not having good trade routes in your capital.

Except that if the capital is on the coast, you're going to be paying more for maintenance cost in the other cities. Distance is a factor, and you're better off with your capital in a central position with cities all around it rather than off to the side somewhere with only some cities nearby. What you gain with the extra trade routes you might lose in increased maintenance costs.