Fuedalism Slingshot.

[Blake]

Maybe some will be amused by this one. It's actually easier than a traditional CS Slingshot because Monarchy is a cheaper tech than Code of Laws.

Play with an Organized leader, any of them. Prehaps Roosevelt (OMG I can't believe i reccomended Roovsevelt for a leader for anything). Any other Organized leader will do though, or even non-organized leaders.

Research:
Myst, Polytheism, Priesthood, Writing, Monarchy.

Complete the Oracle the turn that Monarchy completes and pick up Fuedalism as your free tech, switch to Serfdom and Vassalage, enjoy the 5 free units to ease upkeep costs.

Make the AI cry uncle with your cover longbows.

[JackRudd]

Monarchy's cheaper than CoL, but CS is more expensive than Feudalism, so it balances out a bit. And there's a benefit to rushing to CoL that doesn't apply to rushing to Monarchy.

[Blake]

Monarchy = Hereditary Rule and hooking up wines.

I don't think it's generally better, but it is amusing having pratically invunerable units at like 1000BC.

It should also be possible to Prophet Civil Service if you avoid researching Masonary, since Fuedalism is a pre-req for CS.

So you end up with a nice civic in every category except economics (assuming you pick up Organized Religion afterwards).

edit: In order to lightbulb CS you need to research or lightbulb CoL first. Assuming you snag stonehenge and the oracle then you'll definitely be able to lightbulb it still in time to pick up Conf.

I'm still trying to assess the value of having outrageously strong resourceless units in the early game, one thing for sure you can get lvl5 crazy fast because Longbows don't have a tendency to die. Even mega stacks tend to crumple against Longbows, altough if you're being invaded that early you might be screwed thanks to pillaging...

The best use I've found is for Always War on Paengea games, where the Drill Longbows really shine mowing down the endless hordes.

[The_Paladin]

I've actually been known to use the oracle to get monarchy once in a while if I really want it badly for some reason so this doesn't sound too bad - especially for an early war. Serfdom doesn't really interest me but jumping right to having longbows ensures a great defence. So it might be good for builder styles as well.

There isnt the religion bonus like with getting CoL but frankly monarchy will help more in the short run with happiness than religion would. And there's nothing saying you won't get a religion along the way anyways (or get one by manually researching CoL... if anyone actually manually researches that at all anymore ). If I don't get the pyramids... monarchy is a very high priority for me.

[rjmatsleepers]

Using a great prophet for CS only completes part of the research, whereas the oracle gives it all. So, if your strategy is to make a dash for bureaucracy and you plan to build the oracle on the way, choosing CS maximises the saved beakers. But maybe you want to chill out with a glass of wine on the way while your longbowmen do all the work.

[Deity Dude]

Just a question from an MP player only.

Do you think any of these strategies would work in a game against humans?

[Swissy]

I've completed both a Fued and CS slingshot in an MP game. Very tough, most times I had players cussing at me for beating them to Stnehedge and Oracle. I've done both with India, and the Fued with Inca. Guess you have to start with Mys to even have a chance at Stonehedge in an MP game.

[Alkis2]

I'm still trying to assess the value of having outrageously strong resourceless units in the early game, one thing for sure you can get lvl5 crazy fast because Longbows don't have a tendency to die.

It seems an interesting idea. OTOH longbowmen is a defensive unit, are they successfull on the attack too? What did you find from your experience? One thing for sure is that you can pilage your opponent to death but can you also take cities and if yes how costly that is?

[Krill]

You can easily ram Longbows down someones throat if you want in an MP game. Fued gives Vassalage, so with a barracks a longbow can get combat one and Shock or Cover.

I actually think that Fued from the Oracle is as good as, if not better than getting CS. People can throw all of the axes they want at me if I have longbows. I would definately do it if I had no metals. Been there, done that, made some else buy the farm.

---

Yeah, the Oracle slingshots work in MP. Metal casting, Feud, Civil service, and, I suppose, Construction would be the main aims. You ought to be able to get Construstion easily enough anyway though. One could, if you had a good enough starting position, get Machinery if one tried hard enough and risked it, but it would not be safe.

[Blake]

Cool, I figured out how to do a prophet-fired Fuedalism Slingshot for Philosophical leaders (or myst+spiritualism leaders). Monarchy DOESN'T require writing, while CoL DOES. So timing the research of Writing is critical.

Basically build stonghenge, avoid researching Masonary, research Polytheism and Meditation, start researching writing but don't finish it.

Ideally you want this to happen, in this order.
The Prophet pops out and Lightbulbs Monarchy.
(next turn) Writing completes, oracle completes.
Pick Fuedalism as the Oracle tech.

Go on to research Alphabet (possibly picking up wheel and pottery first), trade for Iron WOrking and Mathematics and cheap stuff.
Lightbulb CoL with next GP.
Research Construction.
Build a bunch of Pults.

Your longbows should have been harrassing a neighbour, not actually sieging their cities (other than those with 0 defense) but basically being a nuisance and increasing in level. Escort the new catapults with the Longbows and take over the nieghbour.

[Alkis2]

I tried your original version and it was hard. Btw when I actually managed to do it I realized that I couldn't build longbows They need hunting/archery.

Anyway the fact is you can actually take cities with them but the whole situation has a lot of problems. Longbows are expensive that early, your cities are few and not productive, your enemy will have more cities and better production on Emperor, you need worker technologies you didn't take etc.

Just for the record I managed to get one city in that game which had 65% defense bonus. I killed more than 25 enemy units in total, losing about 10, but in the end I got a lost position. I had only 4 cities with no space to expand more and eventually the AI civs discovered Feudalism too.

In one battle I lost with 92% chance in my favor (I hate this game).

[couerdelion]

Also trying to think of a good use for this.

Well this slingshot would make a change but I’m not sure it’s a big play that will drive you forward in a game. That may just be me as the minimalist defender who only just manages to save his shrine city from barbarian axemen with a finely timed copper mine completion and pop-rushed axe defender

I would argue that axemen are more important than longbows at this stage of the game because they are both offensive and defensive. Longbows are a bit too heavy on the defensive side so wont really help you take cities. This will mean that the economy will have to continue to plod along without any benefits from religion or bureaucracy. The imbalance of the standard slingshot can be easily corrected while this one will require longer with the lower level of commerce and beakers.

I assume that the choice of Organised is just to avoid the costs of carrying the new extra civics. Otherwise, I can see how organised is particularly beneficial to achieving this.

[Blake]

Yeah, Organized isn't that important, but the idea is after the slingshot you engage in "rapid, secured" expansion. Longbows are immune to dying on defense, they can really make a mess out of even emperor AI's economy, slow them down until catapults, then split them open. A large benefit is actually vassalage, raider2 Catapults are nasty.

It requires an adaption in play style, you can be bold, oh so bold, with Longbows. Like marching right into the core of an AI's empire (with a stack of bows and pults) and taking out their capital, you can then hold their capital. It doesn't even matter if they get Fuedalism, because their longbows will be upgraded, promotionless archers, while your longbows are all lvl3, or maybe lvl5 if the AI has kamikazied a bunch of units on them.... which it tends to, because it gets confused.

Longbows are expensive yes, but use them carefully and they don't tend to die and they'll serve you for nearly an eternity, build once, use forever. It requires a large adaption in play style.

The thing about Emperor.. is it's so touch and go at the best of times. In some ways I think Monarch is a better testbed because 99% of the time Monarch games can be won.

I tried the Fuedalism slingshot in the Realms Beyond Adventure Two - The Frozen Jungle game, which is Aztecs, Monarch, Highlands with a totally garbage start. I marched my longbows down to pretty much the strongest AI, split them open and took their lands for my own, I don't think anyone managed such a military coup. But it's hard to say whether it was the longbows or just the exceptional boldness of the entire strategy. But in any case, the fuedalism beeline certainly isn't bad, if it is bad it couldn't possibly have worked with such an adverse start.

[Arrian]

Blake,

Did you do a writeup for RBC Adventure Two? I found your writeup for Adventure Three (nicely done!), but not Two.

EDIT: nevermind, found it!

http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=726

-Arrian