clearing jungles

[axi]

I think there are some locales on Earth that are just not meant for human habitation, without a lot of modification and that is what Firaxis is talking about when they designate a square "jungle."

I don't think Firaxis's decisions about cIV gameplay were THAT much thought out.

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by snafuc4
Thoughts like yours make me very angry...


Probably because the explorers themselves (or the forerunners of those explorers - the ones that didn't make it back) introduced it (the disease)

Do you know anything at all about these diseases, where they come from, what infection vector(s) they travel through? Or have you been looking at FoxTV?

Whoa, I just saw this one. Born in Cleveland, grew up in the swingin' rock n' roll Seventies, moved to the American Southeast to follow jobs and other singles; I resist stereotyping as the simplified FoxTV watching, crew-cut American simpleton. I may not be a microbiologist, but I have been reading extensively since I was 4 in the early Sixties and worked as a general assignment newspaper reporter for awhile, researching professionally a wide variety of topics. The only reason I am not accredited in history is because I declined to get the degree to please family who thought it was a dead-end field. (So was journalism, at least for me, but that's another story. )

As I told another correspondent, I don't research ideas I throw out here as I would a news story, or a thesis; because this is leisure, in case you forgot I feel it will all come out in the wash anyway as different people contribute their impressions in a positive manner. Thesis + antithesis = synthesis; isn't that Hegel? It was pretty much the principle in my country prior to Reagan/Bush and now the whole world's polarized, but I'm not going to take responsibility for it.

I oppose the current government in Washington (the one supported knee-jerk by Rupert Murdoch's Fox News-isn't he Austrialian or something?) on practically everything. I don't think this is a place for personal attacks, especially on strangers you don't really know.

The purpose of the thread is to try to get at some truth as to why the designers of this popular game chose to develop a "jungle" terrain FOR GAME PURPOSES and to have an animated but friendly discussion as to whether it might be appropriate to change, with mods or formally in an expansion/patch.

Your points seem to split hairs about certain real world features without knowing what Firaxis had in mind when they designed the game, which none of us really do. We can safely assume that game "jungle" includes some forbidding foilage as well as probably standing water, so it would combine features potentially of rainforest, upland tropical forest and basin tropical forest. I haven't done the best job of documenting it, but it is clear throughout history that people have had difficulty habitating in this type of terrain, maybe not all people all the time, but many have died. This had to be what Firaxis was thinking too. Maybe we can go on from there.

[Earthworm]

I think that there are some good points that have been made here (Those that were on topic). Most of the tiles in CIV have their purpose. Most terrain that can be modified has it's benifits and negatives to doing so. i.e. Clearing Forests have negative late game impacts with health and such, but give you a production boost right then.

I find it odd that the Jungle is in CIV pretty much as a hurdle to be removed, with no real drawback to doing so. I know the designers removed the whole polution and global warming thing in CIV, which I think removing Jungles should have had an adverse affect on, but on the other hand I like not having to clean up polution.

I think it would be cool, although hard to balance, if there was a civ trait to allow civ's to live in jungle areas (like the Mayan's) without the healt hit, and maybe some food bonuses. That way not all Civ's would have the same view of clear cutting every inch of jungle they came accross. Kind of like the Seafarring trait of old, like Jungle Dweler or something.

I liked the Seafarring trait in C3C and think similar traits should be brought back in CIV+.

[platypotamus]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why are they so bad?

Originally posted by johnmcd


He did say 'wasting' not 'using', I think there is a difference there.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was true depending on how it's all calculated. If you look at the available natural energy sources and their use you can already point at lots of wastage. Then there is the fact the local economy is dependant to great extent on tourists expending huge amounts of energy to get there, then there is the 'uneccessary' cost of air conditioning all those spaces, piping water and so on.

It would also depend on if you count Hoover Dam as part of Las Vegas or not. It's only about 20 miles outside of Vegas, and it does generate the electricity used by a huge chunk of the SW US... far more than Vegas consumes.