National Wonders

[johnmcd]

Scotland's capital moved something like

Scone to Dunferline to Stirling to Edinburgh. Probably more that I'm not aware of too. I do feel the Palace cost ought to scale though. Moving an iron age government is a much smaller task than moving a modern government.

[Quillan]

The nice thing about Ironworks in Civ 4 is that the city where you build it does not have to have Iron and/or Coal within its city radius; it just has to have access to Iron/Coal via the trade network to get the bonus.

[JackRudd]

I remember that being one of the really annoying things in Civ 3. You had to build the Ironworks in a city with Coal and Iron in its radius, but you had no way of knowing, at the time you were placing your cities, where on earth that was going to be.

[Quillan]

Originally posted by JackRudd
I remember that being one of the really annoying things in Civ 3. You had to build the Ironworks in a city with Coal and Iron in its radius, but you had no way of knowing, at the time you were placing your cities, where on earth that was going to be.

In Civ 3, the option to build it didn't even appear unless a city had both iron and coal, so it rarely appeared. I like this version better, and I feel it's a little more realistic. You can, after all, ship the iron and the coal by rail to the smelter.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Quillan


In Civ 3, the option to build it didn't even appear unless a city had both iron and coal, so it rarely appeared. I like this version better, and I feel it's a little more realistic. You can, after all, ship the iron and the coal by rail to the smelter.

I can only once ever remember seeing a possible city site where the Ironworks in CivIII could be built. Just one or two adjacent tiles in the whole world in about 20+ games!!!!

I almost died when I saw that even though it was right next to the Persian empire. Would you believe it but the persian built a city just one tile away.

It was a clear justification for all out mechanised war. Just a shame that the rest of the world, including the Germans and their Panzers, decided that I was in the wrong here. Panzers can be quite effective in cutting through your infantry stacks.

[tetley]

You can, after all, ship the iron and the coal by rail to the smelter.

Which brings up another point: if you're going to be realistic, you should be able to ship around food, too. It's not like Phoenix grew to be a one-million-plus metropolitan area because there was a rice paddy nearby.

[Arrian]

I typically end up with this:

National Epic + Oxford in capital.
Heroic Epic + Ironworks in another productive city *OR*
Heroic Epic + Wall Street (this #2 city is often my holy city)

Occasionally, I'll have Oxford + Ironworks in my capital and have the National Epic in another city.

I like the HE + West Point... but I've have a number of games where I don't have the lvl 5 unit required, or at least do not have it until quite late. But clearly HE/WP has better synergy than HE/IW. HE/IW ends up building some units, then a wonder, then some units... it's not focused the way HE/WP is.

-Arrian

[tetley]

HE+WP is sweet. If you can find just 2 more XP somewhere (e.g. Aggressive, Theocracy), your units are level 3 right out of the starting gate.

[Arrian]

The Pentagon takes care of that

-Arrian

[Hermann the Lombard]

At least the Ironworks is more practical than in Civ3 where you could only build it if you had both resources in the city radius. It's nice to get double the benefit but even nicer to be able to BUILD the thing.

[The D]

This is the combination I've found to be the best. Usually I play Ghandi so I tend to have a lot of wonders in my capital.

Capital: National Epic + Oxford (With the wonders I've built it will generate great people at a decent rate, and I always emphasize commerce in the capital and enter beauracracy ASAP so Oxford is a no-brainer)

1st High Production City: Heroic Epic + West Point (Generally I'm building Heroic Epic ASAP and not worrying about where I'll put Ironworks later)

Holy City: Wall Street + Whatever (Even if I found religion in my capital I've hopefully either founded a second somewhere else or captured one from an opponent)

2nd High Production City: Ironworks + Red Cross (Red Cross gives you the medic promotion to many of the military units this city will be pumping out quickly)

Culture City: Hermitage + Globe Theatre (I'll build these wonders on a border I'm interested in expanding)

[Blake]

In my games Red Cross usually just goes wherever. For one it doesn't benefit tanks. I DON"T want it in my ironworks city because IW is for building wonders and spaceships. SO it goes into a city with strong production, but not strong enough to justify another national wonder.

Half the time my medics are explorers or artillery anyway. RC explorer medics can take MedicII right away, while the Artillery can take BarrageI and Accuracy.

The ease of adding March would be of more significance if not for the fact that Mechinf get it anyway.

[Spiderjeru]

Well, I always play Marathon, usually Noble or above, and I think I've found the best setup for me.


1. Coastal Production city; West Point and Ironworks
I try to put this in a city with both iron and coal bonuses, of course. My current game playing as Mansa I'm able to easilty single-turn elite tanks and airlift them directly to the scene of the slaughter. Keeping this city coastal allows me to churn out powerful naval reinforcements. I built two carriers, their fighter compliment (which was a waste in retrospect), three transports worth of tanks, four battleships, and some extra destroyers for my picket and spent as few turns churning invasion as possible before switching back to normal running civics. 14 exp units will trounce normal newly minted ones very badly.

This city builds wonders I want to catch when military building has become overkill.

2. Capital; Wall Street and Oxford. I focus my capital on being the financial center of my empire - if another city would be a better financial center, that's where these two go. I never get so attached to my capital that I won't move if neccesary.

3. Second production city; Heroic Epic (and Red Cross, if things get that far). I build Heroic Epic pretty early, with the intention of using this city to stock defenders, pickets, and the like. Adding Red cross at a later date keeps the units worth having one per city and one per stack. Honestly though in most every game I've played by the time Red Cross gets built it's all over but the cryin'.

[Swiss Pauli]

I need to remember all of the NWs!

Last game I forgot about Oxford and plunked West Point in my big-beakers capital, which was not so clever given I'd already built Wall Street there.

[Yosho]

Originally posted by tetley


Which brings up another point: if you're going to be realistic, you should be able to ship around food, too. It's not like Phoenix grew to be a one-million-plus metropolitan area because there was a rice paddy nearby.

(shrug) In modern times, sure. However, it is true that for most of history, most food to support a large walled city was grown in the farms around the city; there's be some trading of food luxury items like olive oil and wine and such, but the bulk of the food would be grown close to the city. The civ system works pretty well to simulate that, I think.