National Wonders

[Brael]

I realise there will always be situations where this doesn't apply since all strategys are situational but something I've noticed about my play is i tend to be really hesitant to place my National Wonders because I look at great cities I'll own in the future where I can place them. So my expierence with this isn't very great. I'm trying to figure out how to best utilize these improvements and right now what I can think of is:

Palace - Whereever maintence will be reduced the most.
Forbidden Palace - This one I have a problem with because the more you expand the more benefit you're going to get from this, so it seems like theres never going to be an optimal location for it until the game is over.
National Epic - In my GP city (generally my capital as I tend to use the production bonus from Beauracuracy to make wonders to generate GP)
Heroic Epic - My highest production city thats not the capital
Globe Theater - My highest population city that doesn't go into other categories
West Point - My second highest production city thats not the capital
Ironworks - Same city as the Heroic Epic
Red Cross - Same city as West Point
Wall Street - Highest non capital commerce city
Oxford University - Same city as Wall Street (I tend to make sure this city gets an Academy too)
Scotland Yard - Any city with reasonable production that can fit it into it's build que
Mt Rushmore - Any city I can reasonably fit it into.

Does anyone have some suggestions on how I can improve this?

[Gherald]

National Epic - In my GP city (generally my capital as I tend to use the production bonus from Beauracuracy to make wonders to generate GP)

Indeed.

Heroic Epic - My highest production city thats not the capital

I like to pair it with West Point or, occasionally, the Red Cross in those rare games where a 17 exp unit comes too late.

I would /never/ build the Heroic Epic in the same city I intend to have the Ironworks.

Globe Theater - My highest population city that doesn't go into other categories

I have never had a need for this wonder in non-OCC games.

West Point - My second highest production city thats not the capital

In multiplayer games I may opt to build it in the highest production city.

In a few of these games where I had the Pyramids, I built it in my capital which also had the Ironworks and ran Police State/Beaurocracy/Slavery/Mercantilism/Theocracy.

That was a fun cavalry rush.

Ironworks - Same city as the Heroic Epic

Again, I would never put it in the same city as Heroic Epic.

Very often it is the same city as Wall Street, where I settle all my Prophets.

Red Cross - Same city as West Point

This one comes so late I often skip it, but I try do try to place it in a coastal city, especially if West Point isn't one.

Wall Street - Highest non capital commerce city

Well, if the capital's gold is outrageous (2 shrines or something) that's where I put it.

Oxford University - Same city as Wall Street (I tend to make sure this city gets an Academy too)

On Monarch I always run 100% science, so Oxford in the same city as Wall Street would be retarded. I like to put Oxford in my Capital since it usually also has an academy and benefits from Beaurocracy. My capital usually has a lot of towns to take full advantage of this combo, and is where I settle my great scientists. I very rarely build more than 1 academy.

This method routinely nets me over 700 beakers/turn in just the capital.

Scotland Yard - Any city with reasonable production that can fit it into it's build que

Yeah.

Mt Rushmore - Any city I can reasonably fit it into.

I never research Fascism.

[Brael]

Why wouldn't you combine Iron Works with the Heroic Epic? The bonuses are cumulative right? That would make one city a major production base for units.

[Yosho]

Yeah...I often have a Iron Works-Heroic Epic city. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I usually do end up with Oxfard and Wall Street both in my capital; it's usually my biggest commerce center, and it's also usually the home of my main shrine.

[Willem]

Re: National Wonders

Originally posted by Brael

Globe Theater - My highest population city that doesn't go into other categories

This is a good one to place in a border city. With 6 culture and the ability to create 3 Artists, it's a veritable culture factory. You have to be sure you have enough food to support 3 artists though.

[Solomwi]

I wouldn't say HE/IW is the worst possible combination, but I greatly prefer HE/WP. Instead of twice as much cannon fodder, I can use that city to produce an elite vanguard of troops (the 4 xp translates into an extra promotion out of the box with one or any two of Pentagon, Vassalage or Theocracy) while the IW city, along with others, can flesh out the ranks with cannon fodder. That also gives me the flexibility to dedicate my HE/WP city to troop production while I divert the IW city to a wonder or project, if need be.

I've always put the National Epic in my wonder-heavy capital, but I'm starting to question that. Has anybody run the numbers on whether it's more productive over the long haul to have two cities running neck and neck with GPP or have them as concentrated as possible in one city?

[xxFlukexx]

Originally posted by Solomwi
Has anybody run the numbers on whether it's more productive over the long haul to have two cities running neck and neck with GPP or have them as concentrated as possible in one city?

Neck and neck is alright if you can get it to work. Problem is that if you have a really good GP machine, it is hard for any other city to compare to it and thus a lot of wasted GP points. That and having 2 GP cities is a pretty risky move at Standard and smaller maps, production cities are usually more important.

Putting National Epic in your wonder heavy city is good....if you don't care that much about what GP you are getting. Now if you want to control the GP you get, then put the National Epic in a high food city and maybe run Caste System and then you'll get the majority (if not all) of your GP there and maybe a few GP from your wonder city at the beginning of the game.

HE/IW is not really that great, I mean IW is a huge hit to your healty stuation(usually calls for a special city with forests around or on fresh water or a harbor or something) and a city with IW wants to build wonders or spaceship parts and only occasionally troops. IW is also really expensive unless you rush it, I hate taking my HE city off of building military for any reason. The thing is that if you have a HE/IW city and you want to build a wonder, then you will build it in your HE/IW city and lose out on the HE bonus.

P.S. Why doesn't the OP want to build Oxford/Wallstreet in your capital city? It absolutely rocks with bureaucracy. Wallstreet yeah if you have a good shrine it should go there, but I like to put my shrine in my cap, so usually my cap always gets wall street and oxford and becomes a super powerhouse.

[fed1943]

I agree with Gherald about spiliting WP and HE;the reason is to have two cities quickly produce military.
Best regards,

[axi]

I always want to have:

1 Capital - National Epic - Oxford = 1st wonder city + Science powerhouse + Great scientist pump + 1st cultural win city

2 Heroic Epic + West Point = Units powerhouse

3 National religion shrine city + Hermitage + Wall street = 2nd wonder city + money powerhouse + Great prophet pump + 2nd cultural win city

4 City heavy on flood plains+ mine hills/resources + Ironworks = production powerhouse + 3rd wonder city + 3rd cultural win city (if I get a shrine in there, so much for the better)

I dislike cottages so I play with Specialists: Representation + Caste system + Statue of Liberty + that+2cultureperspecialistwonder

[Quillan]

I build Wall Street in a holy city, to whatever religion I've spread the most. The majority of the time I put Ironworks in there too. I settle excess Great Prophets there, and the Ironworks modifies the bonus hammers given by them, Great Engineers as specialists, priest specialists and engineer specialists as well.

I rarely seem to get West Point. If I do, it'll go where the Ironworks is.

Oxford goes in my highest commerce city. Putting Wall Street in a high commerce city is a waste, IMO; my goal is to get enough money from religion to run 100% science. Therefore, there will be NO gold generated from commerce, and Wall Street will have nothing to modify.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Quillan
I build Wall Street in a holy city, to whatever religion I've spread the most. The majority of the time I put Ironworks in there too. I settle excess Great Prophets there, and the Ironworks modifies the bonus hammers given by them, Great Engineers as specialists, priest specialists and engineer specialists as well.

I rarely seem to get West Point. If I do, it'll go where the Ironworks is.

Oxford goes in my highest commerce city. Putting Wall Street in a high commerce city is a waste, IMO; my goal is to get enough money from religion to run 100% science. Therefore, there will be NO gold generated from commerce, and Wall Street will have nothing to modify.

That would be three national wonders in one city?

[Quillan]

Nope, if I get West Point, Ironworks gets paired with it instead of Wall Street. Occasionally I'll do something different, I've had Ironworks with Red Cross before, but normally I put it with Wall Street since I've taken to making lots of Great Prophets (credit to Common Sensei for the inspiration. It works).

[Willem]

Personally I disagree with this idea of mixing Wonders with different GP points. I prefer to specialize in my cities so I have more control over what gets created. So I'll have a city that's all Scientists that gets Oxford University along with Scotland Yard, and so on.

[PaganPaulwhisky]

I dont think there is much of a point in pairing ironworks with heroic epic. I use my heroic epic city to constantly churn out units which makes Westpoint an awesome combination here. I would rather use the Ironworks in a city where I am actually building important late game wonders / buildings. If heroic epic is in a high production city, you don't really need ironworks here as units are much less expensive and will build very fast anyway.

The wonder that gives me problems is Wall Street as I almost always pair national epic with oxford in the capitol (I tend to prioritize the education tech path). Wall street always gets put in my 2nd highest cash city and doesn't pay much dividends since I get banking pretty late.

[Hermann the Lombard]

Regarding Forbidden Palace, there's a suggestion that goes against my grain: place the FP right in the core of your original empire, smack among your earliest and presumably most productive cities. The build a new Palace in the heart of your next biggest concentration (like an early victim's capital). [Personally I *hate* to move my capital--maybe because I grew up in Washington DC!!--but I understand the theory.]