Shrines worth the trouble?

[Blake]

If you found more than one religion in one city, then definitly build shrines for at least 2 of the religions in the city. It's harder to quantify when religions are spread over multiple cities. If spiritual, I say go for it and spread the religion and build temples.

I'll often build the primary shrine (say conf), then settle the next 2 great prophets, then fianlly get around to making the Tao shrine. I want Conf to spread more aggressively, and only give Tao the shrine when it wont get in the way of conf by converting the wrong cities.

Note that sometimes a religion can be stealthily spreaing, in one game I had Buddhism and Conf, Buddhism had spread aggressively and Conf hadn't appeared to spread naturally much at all. Then i switched religion to Conf (yay for spritual) and was suprised to immediately get contact with 2 new leaders, Conf had stealthily spread 5-6 times out into the deep fog. Soon Conf actually caught up to Buddhism, with both at about 18 cities. Buddhism had spread great locally, but abroad conf was doing better.

[Arrian]

My current game has a Confucian/Taoist holy city. Two shrines + Market, Grocer, Bank, Wall Street. I'm running 10% tax and making money. And I haven't even spread the religions beyond my borders yet (started alone). Once I do that, hoo-ah!

The Mali founded four religions: Buddism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. My first hostile act was to steal the Islamic (island) holy city (it had dyes, which was actually the reason). I chose to keep it, although it has no shrine, b/c an ally converted to Islam (isolated, no religion... one city goes Islamic, boom, conversion). No need to incur the "you burned our holy city" negative and waste a settler on replacing the city.

My second target: the Jewish holy city. Judaism is wide-spread, and that city also had the Great Lighthouse. Shrine included. That chopped a leg off of Mansa Musa right there. I know he's got the Buddist shrine up too (I took, lost, retook & relost Timbuktu, due to Rumsfeldian troop levels*), and I hope he put up the Christian shrine too... I think he did.

-Arrian

*I went in with 3 infantry & 3 cannons, and later added a Cavalry as a last-gasp effort. I lost my 3 infantry, Cav and 1 cannon to a slew of catapults, riflemen and knights. I limped away with 2 of my cannon. My guys kicked some serious butt, but there just weren't enough of 'em. I now have a real invasion force chewing through the Malinese empire from the opposite end.

[Arrian]

I'll often build the primary shrine (say conf), then settle the next 2 great prophets, then fianlly get around to making the Tao shrine. I want Conf to spread more aggressively, and only give Tao the shrine when it wont get in the way of conf by converting the wrong cities.

Hmm, I'll have to remember that. I built the Conf shrine with prophet #1 and the Taoist shrine with prophet #3 (#2 was used for a GA).

-Arrian

[MasterDave]

I like founding religions with early prophets. On Monarch level, you can snag enough beakers to learn Theology start to finish. I generally will only choose to use a prophet as a super-specialist early if I already have a shrine, and am desperate for cash. Otherwise, getting my first shrine, code of laws or theology is preferable.

[Mace]

Originally posted by Solomwi
Watching the last one go up in flames gives my heart an opportunity to revel in its blackness.

Ohhwww man nice quote.

[CerberusIV]

I've just finished a game as Spain on a standard continents map at epic speed. A bit unusual as I had contact with 5 of the other 6 civs almost from the start (How an isolated Ghandi managed to found Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam escapes me).

I eventually spread my religion, Buddhism, to all 59 cities on the map and used 57 missionaries to do so.

I was going to use this as an example for some hard figures but then realised it is simpler than that.

The market, grocer and bank improvements all increase gold whether it is from building wealth, a super specialist or shrine income (every time I spread Buddhism to a new city my income rose by 2gpt, not 1, so the improvements must give the 100% bonus with all 3 - which suggests a shrine city with a widely spread religion is the most profitable place to build Wall Street).

A missionary costs 50 hammers. Building wealth gives one gold for two hammers so it is basically equivalent to a one off 25 gold.

A super specialist priest gives 2 hammers and 5 gold per turn - equivalent to 6 gpt if the hammers were building wealth.

As an example let's take building 20 missionaries and converting 20 cities (some attempts will fail but some will get the religion without using a missionary so one for one isn't unreasonable).

20 missionaries is equivalent to 20*25 gold = 500 gold by building wealth instead. Using the Great Prophet as a super specialist is equivalent to another 6gpt.

Building the shrine and getting 1gpt from 20 cities is, not surprisingly, 20gpt. Deducting the 6gpt from the super specialist leaves a net 14 gpt. 500/14 = 35.7 so with 20 cities with your religion, a shrine is more profitable than wealth after just 36 turns.

No contest IMHO - a shrine for your primary religion is the way to go.

In my game I also founded Confucianism and build the shrine for that. I deliberately spread the religion to my own 10 cities and the above calculation suggests that that was profitable after about 60-70 turns.

[psiekier]

I always build shrines when I get the opportunity.

If you have founded a religion (I usually capture some, if not all of the late-game religions), they are a smashing use for your Great Prophets. You get money, you get Culture, I mean, how is the Great Prophet better spent?

If you're going for a Cultural Victory, they are also a huge boost to any city you've planned as a cultural hot-spot. I try to get shrines in each of my three target cities, and stack on temples and cathedrals too, if I can manage it.

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When it comes to speading religion, I try to spread every religion I have via missionary to each of my own cities. I find it hard to overlook the happiness and culture bonuses from having multiple temples in each city, plus you need them to build cathedrals, plus it really comes in handy when you select the "Free Religion" civic.

[joncnunn]

Shrines are very useful, one gold for every city (regardless of who owns it) with that religion regardless of your state religion (or absence thereof) and also regardless of any other religion in that city.

Multiplied by all gold improving structures, including Wall Street.

They are the key to paying for the increased upkeep costs from expanding.

[Yowzer]

Got a question. Is there a way to determine which of your cities become the holy city of a religion you found? To me it seems random... or maybe I'm not seeing it. :P

[Urban Ranger]

Usually it is the newest city when the religion is founded. However there is also some randomness involved.

[johnmcd]

I think it's founded in the newest city without a faith, if all cities have a religion I think it will go to the one with fewest. If there is a choice of cities to take at that point it will take one which is already a holy city, otherwise it seems pretty random.