What am i doing wrong

[unamablebuiler]

why is it i am constantly over run by barbarians ARRRRGH

see the save
i am washginton and have nearly build a "cultral wall" just refused an open borders with ghandi haven't seen any one else then hordes of barbs make it impossible to settle.

Cant realy move senties cause i need to keep an eye on ghandi just slingshot to theology for sistine chapel

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=77893_AutoSave_AD-0001.Civ4SavedGame

[Gelondil]

The reason you're seeng so many is because you spread too fast into open territory. When you built your cities as spread out as you did, you increased your own border alot. Had you build your cities all together in a clump, the amount of wild frontier you'd be touching would be half as big, so you'd be seeing half as many barbarians.

You haven't seen "hordes" of barbarians until you've played with raging hordes on. The barbarians you have look about normal to me.

[Willem]

Over run, I count all of three. That's nothing.

So you should never, ever send out a Settler unescorted, that's just a disaster waiting to happen. At that point in the game, I wouldn't send them out with anything less than an Archer for company.

And when the Axemen start coming around, it's a good idea to have more than 1 unit defending a city. Sometimes they do get lucky and then you're out of a city.

So you are a little spread out but your main problem is that you don't have any units out along your borders to stop the barbs. Put some Archers on Hills just outside your territory and the barbs will generally suicide themselves attacking them, and rarely reach your cities. You've basically expanded too quickly without providing yourself enough of a defense.

And if your idea was to build a cultural wall, you've put Philadelphia in the wrong place. It should have been built along the coast between Washington and Madras. All you have now is a long hole all the way down the coast that Ghandi can plop a city into.

[unamablebuiler]

try playing it for a few turns and youll see in about 5 - 10 turns you will have 5 or so simultaneous barbarian attacks through the empire.

Second all cities are on a river no need for roads yet and philldelphia is only 10 turns or so old the terain is such that big cities are easily supported this is a pretty good start apart from the barbarians

i dont like over lapping my cities much, by the end game i have city sizes of anywhere up to 30 then they run out of food

i do something a bit different with regards tho the unescorted setller problem a unit marks a future city site fortifies and then a nearby city builds a settler ussual the settler is only unprotected for one turn

this civ is at about at its limit for its size until i aquire CoL and market places.
i need to kick the development of cities off with workers and contain ghandi

never tried using culture to wall some one in and second ghandi has the creative bonus but at leas he wont be waging war soon i hope

[unamablebuiler]

Also need to add all archers are city garrision promoted and most barbs come from the east

as for defenders maybe i pushed the econ too hard in one dirrection; land grabbing

[Willem]

Originally posted by unamablebuiler
try playing it for a few turns and youll see in about 5 - 10 turns you will have 5 or so simultaneous barbarian attacks through the empire.

Which could easily have been stopped with a few sentries just outside your borders. You don't have a lot of Hills nearby, but sticking Archers in Forest works as well.

And when they do reach your cities, all it takes is an unlucky combat roll and you've lost your city. You should always have at least two defenders in a city, especially when Axemen are coming around. If the first one goes down, you still have a backup.

Second all cities are on a river no need for roads yet and philldelphia is only 10 turns or so old the terain is such that big cities are easily supported this is a pretty good start apart from the barbarians

Not really. It's all flat land, no Hills and hardly any Forest. You're going to have a hard time building anything. You should be trying to diversify your terrain to make up for your capital's shortcomings, which in this case is poor production. Instead you went for the exact same kind of site.

Not to mention that by spreading yourself out the way you have, you're adding to the maintenance cost of your cities. Distance from the capital is a factor.

i do something a bit different with regards tho the unescorted setller problem a unit marks a future city site fortifies and then a nearby city builds a settler ussual the settler is only unprotected for one turn

One turn is all it takes for a barb or animal to catch you by surprise. And if you're only sending out Warriors to wait for it, that's hardly a defense against an Axeman. He'll be dead meat in no time. Warriors should only be used at the very first of the game, or as scouts since they're expendable.

never tried using culture to wall some one in and second ghandi has the creative bonus but at leas he wont be waging war soon i hope

Ghandi is not Creative, he's Spiritual/Industrious. And you're not containing him very well. Like I said Philadelphia should be along the coast between Washington and Madras. You could have plugged that hole easily without even bothering about culture. Now you have a long pipe down the coast he can wander into wherever he likes.

[Willem]

Originally posted by unamablebuiler
as for defenders maybe i pushed the econ too hard in one dirrection; land grabbing

Definitely. With that many cities, I would have two units in each city, plus 4 - 6 sentries out beyond my borders trying to intercept any incoming barbs. You've left yourself wide open to them.

[Alkis2]

Ok, I played on from your save. I think your plan was to build yet another city further away. Sorry but I changed that Instead I built you two cities on the left side, where you should have expanded in the first place. Please note that nobody ever attacked them.

I made New York a fortress with walls and two promoted units. It's building barracks now. Philidelphia also has walls, now if she survives it's another matter. It was too ambitious to build that city as others have told you already.

I sent missionaries to new cities as was your idea I suppose. I also built a library in Washington and assigned a specialist so that it won't grow more.

Have a look at the save.

[poiuyt00]

Where are all your workers???? you should have 4-5.

[unamablebuiler]

Willem, looked up civlopedia your right i hope you see the next save ... its not perfect but it'l have to do.
As a builder i don't go for mil techs straight away so i dont have monarchy or vassalage till a bit later once the econ is in semi decent shape

Alkis2 i downloaded, looked good apart from the deficit but that may be due to other deficincies

My experince: I dont know if anyone else has seen this but i have found if you are too vigourous in your efforts at containment the AI will either go round, through or declare war. so you need to let them has some space that can be afforded to be lost the question is can i afford it ?

Progress Report
This took a couple saves

with the settler in philly
founded city West of washington about 200 AD
founded sanfran and LA around 700 AD
Also shored up defenses and connected atlanta to boston cultraly , this is a weak link and needs to be reinforeced
mined the iron near atlanta needs production
Great prophet to NY to build temple os solomon need annother for atlanta + christianity
also built more workers
built sistine chapel in washington around 800 AD cant afford to let ghandi have it then my wall would probably be much weaker

about to discover currency

looking to go go for feudalism then drama calenderin that order
need to upgrade military

education too far off and it will take too long

if you are washington you can expand further than anyone else without penalties

Plans
chicago will build a work boat once it has completed its settler
boston builds archer then misionary and market
its not a terribly smart to run a deficit for too long hence currency
long term prospects good assuming i dont see any one else on this continent Ghandi may try to build his way out with my lean mill that could be a problem
problems
lack of available luxuries
unhealthiness not really a problem, need a limit to city size
commerce -- that why i built in the river valley

Very early game beelined for hinduism then resource techs mil isnt agreat priority
only 7 civs and noble, continents tropical, everything else defaults

the more land you can see the fewer barbs you have

[Alkis2]

I had a look at your save I like the way you build your cities. Map size is large or even huge, right? This continent of yours seems to have no end.

At least we agree on one thing, the placement of Chicago. If you built it earlier though you would have the wheat now.

Anyway, have a nice time playing it.

[unamablebuiler]

for any one who wishes to follow i will be putting up
updates at 1500 and 1750

yep Alkis2 it's huge duuno how big ghandi's land is though

i know my early game is my weakest but i will welcome any suggestions later might either ad more civs or jump up a diff i win it.

[Willem]

Originally posted by unamablebuiler
i know my early game is my weakest but i will welcome any suggestions later might either ad more civs or jump up a diff i win it.

You should definitely add more civs. 7 or 8 on a Huge map isn't nearly enough. The game is much more interesting when you're somewhat squeezed in together. If you have tons of room to expand, that's all you end up doing for the whole game. There's no tension then.

[unamablebuiler]

You should definitely add more civs. 7 or 8 on a Huge map isn't nearly enough. The game is much more interesting when you're somewhat squeezed in together. If you have tons of room to expand, that's all you end up doing for the whole game. There's no tension then.

And more barbarians

7 or 8 is my personal preference because i dont like having every other civ turn up at 3500 BC if i put in 11. I will try it though, after all its the best way to make my Early game better. will probably be a new thread in about a week

I have a feeling that all starts with 11 civs will all ha neighbours close. with 7 to 8 civs you can have a variety of starts ranging from close neighbours to spread all over a continent or even alone on a small island.

As far as i know IRL there are hardly ever more than 7 Major powers globally anywhays and often fewer. do we have any historians ??


I am also adding my 1750 save the 1500 one was nearly a repeat of 1000
will be progress report in next post only just got there

[unamablebuiler]

ok here is the progress report

Starting 1445 contact with napolean
1475 hanging gardens built
1485 spiral minaret bult in boston
1500 discover machinery
barbarians only a nuisance from here on
1530 ghandi completes angkor wat
1545 optics discovered
1580 paper
1610 napoloeon circumnavigates the globe my first caravels set sail
1620 versailles complete
1630 printing press
1645 napoloen discovers liberalisim
Chontact with china, aztecs, inca and Mali
1686 educaton discovered .. later than i would of liked
1712 liberalisim discovered
1714 change to freespeech
1726 change to free market
1730 Gunpowder
1734 Manusa masa completes taj mahal


civics
Napoleon: represntative, vassalage, serfdom, free market free religion

Manusa masa: representative, bureaucracy, Slavery, Free market, organised religion

Hauny capau: hereditary rule, bureaucracy, slavery, Free market, organized religion

Ghandi: hereditary rule, free sppech, serfdom, mercantile, organised religion

Qin sh Huang: Heredititary rule, bureaucracy, serfdom, Decentralised, theocratic

Montezuma Hereditary rule, vassalage, serfdom, decentralisation, organised relidion

Mine : Hereditary rule, free speech, slavery, freemarket, organised religon


The chinese and indians are annoyed while the aztecs are furious i will be starting to build a modest army very soon

i am thinking of going for milltradition for cavalry instead of democracy i rat my chances of grabbing the statue of liberty as very poor ( napoleon will probbably build it he is the most advanced) My Civ is 4 in the tech race i had better think about beelinig to MM if i want those luxuries

Napoleon has rifles