How to improve relations and/or avoid war?

[Vynd]

What methods have people found effective for getting an AI nation to like you and/or not go to war with you?

Here are some basic things I'm aware of:

- Don't share a border.
- Do share their religion and/or favorite civic.
- Do have Open Borders.
- Do trade with them.
- Don't trade with their worst enemies.
- Do agree to their trade offers/demands.

What else can I do?

I'm curious because in my current game I have a neighbor (Washington) that I would like to be friends with, but I haven't been able to get relations beyond Cautious. This is awkward because I really need my border with Washington to be safe, and because most of the tie Washington won't trade techs with me at all.

On the plus side, we have Open Borders and some standing trade agreements.

On the negative side, we share a border and I can't adopt his state religion or get him to change his.

I've considered offering gifts of money or possibly even a tech or a resource but I'm not sure how much would be enough.

I've also been avoiding trading with Washington's worst enemy, Louis XIV. I made a few tech trades with Louis early on but have no standing agreements with him. I'm wondering if this is really necessary. Would my relations with Washington suffer if I traded with Louis temporarily and then cut off trading when Washington demands that I do so? Might that actually benefit my relations with Washington, since it would result in me giving in to Washington's demands?

[couerdelion]

If you want to trade with Louis then I would suggest that it is with him that you will want good relations and not Washington. Bear in mind that the religion modifier and border modifier will probably only get worse so you may even find yourself running just to stand still on the relations front.

Unless Washington offers something better than Louis then forget trying to cosy up to the Yank and make friends with someone who is useful to you. You never know, if Washington declares war, you might even have an ally in the old grenouille.

[Arrian]

With Washington, you'll be just fine once you get to Free Religion. That will help a lot, and he's generally agreeable.

I don't recall his favorite civic... is it Representation? That might also help (but it's further down the road than Liberalism).

-Arrian

[Vynd]

To clarify, due to our relative locations and my strategy for the game I'm interested in good relations with Washington and I don't much care about relations with Louis XIV.

What I was getting at in that paragraph is how, exactly, does trading with Louis impact my relations with Washington? We've all seen the messages demanding that we stop trading with so-and-so. And we know that if we reject those messages then that hurts our relations with the person who sent them.

Is this the only way trading has an effect on relations? If so, then it is safe for me to trade with Louis up until Washington demands that I stop. Which is good to know.

[Arrian]

If Louis is Washington's "worst enemy" then trading with him will get you a -x in relations w/Washington (the size of the diplo hit varies... dunno how mad W gets). Then, of course, Wash will demand you stop at some point. Failure to do so will get you another negative. If you say yes, then Louis will hate you.

If Louis is *not* W's "worst enemy" then you can trade w/him w/o causing a problem.

The difficulty is figuring out if they are worst enemies. You can find out W's attitude toward Louis (Friendly, Pleased, Cautious, Annoyed, Furious), but I don't think there is a sure way of telling if he's been tagged as worst enemy. Obviously, if W is furious w/him, don't trade. But I've seen AI civs that are annoyed at multiple other AI civs... which is the worst enemy?

edit: well, you say that Louis is W's worst enemy. Ok, then, simple: do not trade with Louis.

-Arrian

[MightyTiny]

Small gifts of gold every now and then will give you a "we appreciate all the years you've supplied us with resources" bonus.

Also, you might want to make missionaries to plant your religion in his cities, so that when you do get him to like you a bit more, you can then ask him to convert, and he'll most likely agree.

If Washington starts a war (or is attacked), and asks you to join in, agreeing will do wonders for your relations.

[The keeper]

Gift him 1 gold/turn

A few turns later, +x for the years you have given resources.



And yes, trading with Louis and then giving into washington's demand will give you + points with W but - with louis.

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by Arrian
The difficulty is figuring out if they are worst enemies. You can find out W's attitude toward Louis (Friendly, Pleased, Cautious, Annoyed, Furious), but I don't think there is a sure way of telling if he's been tagged as worst enemy. Obviously, if W is furious w/him, don't trade. But I've seen AI civs that are annoyed at multiple other AI civs... which is the worst enemy?

I assume that "worst enemy" applies to all civs that are annoying to another civ. Furious speaks for itself.

I guess most of the things have been mentioned already, gifts of gold, techs, changing religion, civics. If you can't change to his religion or vice versa, at least free religion won't count against you.

One way that would work is if he has any attack options on his menu. Bribe hime to attack someone, and then join in. It sounds like Louis would be a good candidate. After George takes the bait, join him and gain points for "our mutual struggle brings us closer together". The longer the war takes, the more points you accumulate.

I don't think I've ever been attacked by Washington, but a strong army is always a good deterrent. Best not to have a much stronger neighbor even cautious.

[Vynd]

Thanks for the help everybody. I'm especially glad for the confirmation that if you give someone gold on a regular basis this will improve your relations. I've never seen that bonus myself. I must not be generous enough...

For those who are interested: I finally managed to get my relationship with Washington up to Pleased by trading him Philosophy for some gold and his World Map. The turn after that Louis XIV declared war. I guess Washington smelled blood, because he declared war the turn after that and invaded with a big stack of cavalry archers and catapults! So much for that plan.

[Arrian]

Gold is one option. You can also gift them a resource, which will get you the "thanks for the resources" +1.

Doh!! Did you fight them off?

-Arrian

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by Vynd
Thanks for the help everybody. I'm especially glad for the confirmation that if you give someone gold on a regular basis this will improve your relations. I've never seen that bonus myself. I must not be generous enough...

For those who are interested: I finally managed to get my relationship with Washington up to Pleased by trading him Philosophy for some gold and his World Map. The turn after that Louis XIV declared war. I guess Washington smelled blood, because he declared war the turn after that and invaded with a big stack of cavalry archers and catapults! So much for that plan.

Ahh well. Looks like back to the standard tactic of building a big enough army to deter war, then!

[DrGerry]

A question about gold gift (maybe more from real life). If you give gold and accept all the demands of a leader, don't you ecourage him to demand you more and more?
And the leader don't see you a as coward?
I give gifts from time to time, but (even when I am kind of ultrabuilder) I prefer to have a strong army.

[Alkis2]

Bear in mind that leaders have certain personalities. One thing I can say for sure is that Alexander, for example, can never be trusted. He is always up for war and he will attack you if he has no one else to play his war games with. He attacked me two times despite being Pleased. In the first he crossed an ocean to do so. In the second we had really great relations, we fought wars together, among others things and yet he attacked at some point.

Napoleon is slightly better but still very dangerous. Catherine too, very dangerous.

Montezuma, from my limited experience, is less dangerous than one would expect. I had him annoyed in two games with close borders and yet he didn't attack.

Kublai get's very pissed off if you don't help him in a war. Refusing to do so in a game gave me a -6 which stayed there forever.

In several games I had annoyed neighbours who never attacked me, so we come back to the standard tactic of building a big enough army to deter war. I usually have that army near the border and ready for action, not in the cities. The ideal tile is a forested hill of course, with a road leading there.

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by Vynd

For those who are interested: I finally managed to get my relationship with Washington up to Pleased by trading him Philosophy for some gold and his World Map.

If it's a trade, I'm not sure it goes into the plus category as a gift would, unless perhaps if it's a great bargain, but I'm not sure the AI knows if it is. But if you gift a tech, resource, or gold, it will eventually show up.

Originally posted by Vynd

The turn after that Louis XIV declared war. I guess Washington smelled blood, because he declared war the turn after that and invaded with a big stack of cavalry archers and catapults! So much for that plan.

So, now you should find that Washington has +1 for your "mutual struggle" against Louis. Hopefully Louis isn't ruining your countryside. Ah, sounds like he'll have his arms full with Washington, so what's a few cottages and farms.

[Alkis2]

I think they both attacked him