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I was thinking it'd be educational to get some examples from games of expenses, to help show the value of organized and various civics.
This is from an Emperor game, playing Washingon on a Standard Highlands.
At this point in the game, I switch to Vassalage from Barbarism.
Before:
After:
In this case, Vassalage has reduced my total expenses by 7 gold, almost 10% of the total. Presumably a non-organized leader would be paying about +3 more civic upkeep in this situation, making the net gold benefit about half as great. Vassalage is nearly always positive in terms of expenses, presuming non-zero military spending.
On the benefit of Organized iteslf. From considerable observation I've noticed that at Monarch and Emperor the Civic Upkeep will be slightly higher than City Upkeep. Here is a screenshot from earlier in the game, before building any courthouses:
Washington, Emperor Difficulty, 60% gold allocation,4x Low upkeep, 1x High Upkeep:
Taking the org trait at face value (50% reduction) one would expect the civic upkeep would normally be 14, however org is better than 50%, so it's more likely to be ~16.
In any case the trend I have noticed is that the civic upkeep will rarely be lower than the city upkeep. It can thus be concluded that in the majority of cases, the Org trait reduces total expenses from cities by 25%. Building courthouses will reduce expenses from cities by another 25%, the combination halves expenses from cities.
Whether or not this will exceed the value of Financial depends on income sources - financial only works on tile commerce. There are 5 other main sources of beakers/gold that aren't improved by Financial: Palace, Specialists, Great People, Trade Routes, Trade with AI's & Booty.
The value of Organized versus Financial depends largely on the degree you rely on commerce to power your empire (versus specialists, great people, trade and scamming gold out of AI), it is likely that for empires pushed to the limit the grand total of commerce from tiles will actually be less than the total expenses (net profit comes from the 5 other sources), the 25% savings from Organized will certainly exceed the +1 commerce on SOME tiles from Financial.
In contrary if income from commerce is easily paying off the expenses, then Financial is the better trait.
In short, if your playstyle means you struggle to break even, then Organized is definitely the trait for you. If you prefer a healthy economy then Financial will only make you stronger.
I'd be interested in more case studies from peoples games, even just a screenshot of expnses along with leader&difficulty level and an indication of the level of investment in courthouses and such.
This is from an Emperor game, playing Washingon on a Standard Highlands.
At this point in the game, I switch to Vassalage from Barbarism.
Before:
After:
In this case, Vassalage has reduced my total expenses by 7 gold, almost 10% of the total. Presumably a non-organized leader would be paying about +3 more civic upkeep in this situation, making the net gold benefit about half as great. Vassalage is nearly always positive in terms of expenses, presuming non-zero military spending.
On the benefit of Organized iteslf. From considerable observation I've noticed that at Monarch and Emperor the Civic Upkeep will be slightly higher than City Upkeep. Here is a screenshot from earlier in the game, before building any courthouses:
Washington, Emperor Difficulty, 60% gold allocation,4x Low upkeep, 1x High Upkeep:
Taking the org trait at face value (50% reduction) one would expect the civic upkeep would normally be 14, however org is better than 50%, so it's more likely to be ~16.
In any case the trend I have noticed is that the civic upkeep will rarely be lower than the city upkeep. It can thus be concluded that in the majority of cases, the Org trait reduces total expenses from cities by 25%. Building courthouses will reduce expenses from cities by another 25%, the combination halves expenses from cities.
Whether or not this will exceed the value of Financial depends on income sources - financial only works on tile commerce. There are 5 other main sources of beakers/gold that aren't improved by Financial: Palace, Specialists, Great People, Trade Routes, Trade with AI's & Booty.
The value of Organized versus Financial depends largely on the degree you rely on commerce to power your empire (versus specialists, great people, trade and scamming gold out of AI), it is likely that for empires pushed to the limit the grand total of commerce from tiles will actually be less than the total expenses (net profit comes from the 5 other sources), the 25% savings from Organized will certainly exceed the +1 commerce on SOME tiles from Financial.
In contrary if income from commerce is easily paying off the expenses, then Financial is the better trait.
In short, if your playstyle means you struggle to break even, then Organized is definitely the trait for you. If you prefer a healthy economy then Financial will only make you stronger.
I'd be interested in more case studies from peoples games, even just a screenshot of expnses along with leader&difficulty level and an indication of the level of investment in courthouses and such.
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