One thing I'm disappointed in....

[Velociryx]

Just a tangential observation here.

Civ 4 is a great game. Love it, but....

Then there's the AI.

It's good at what it does, you know? It knows to mass troops. It knows to pillage.

What it doesn't know is how to read the trail signs, and IMO, what this game needs terribly is a BadBoy rating (a la EU 2).

You start a game. You build up. Crush your nearest neighbor, and grow stronger. All your other neighbors just go about their merry little way. Life is beautiful, here we are....

You recover and crush your next neighbor.

Again, the civs remaining near you don't blink. They just sit there like stalks of wheat before the scythe. Not blinking, not blanching or reacting at all that you just sent a wrecking ball through two of your neighbors.

No fears whatsoever that they're prolly next.

BB rating would solve that. *sigh*

-=Vel=-

[couerdelion]

The EU 2 Bad Boy rating was set so that you were almost constantly at war and this will destroy most games in this style of play. Also bear in mind that EU 2 was really a very easy game to master and beat at pure game-play unless you seriously disadvantage yourself.

[MightyTiny]

A legitimate gripe I think. It'd be great if you had to take into consideration the reaction of your other neigbours if you are planning to attack one of your neighbours out of the blue.

What I'd like to see in the expansion, or perhaps the next version of the game, is an expansion of diplomacy, so that nations would have more options to react to world events.

For example, if you attacked a neigbour and conquered them, other neigbhours should get worried, and either try to stay on your good side (if they are weak) with gifts maybe, and/or respond by strengthening their forces along your boreder.

At later periods in the game, there maybe should be the possibility of AI's agreeing to impose trade sanctions on the warmongerer. Maybe this sort of an option should come with the UN.

Also, your neigbours (thinking they may be next) should be very eager to form defence pacts with each other, and perhaps states further off, if they can.

Perhaps then there could also be new means for the warmongerer to use to drive a wedge between the other nations, so that they wouldn't gang up on him.

Perhaps conducting sabotage in one state, and trying to implicate another nation. Or perhaps just somehow giving off the appearance that one of your neighbours was covertly co-operating with you, and receiving payment.

The good old "divide and conquer" you know....

[tijuanacowboy]

Wasn't it that the way in Civ 2, if you declared war/betrayed one civ the other computer players were not as friendly and "Would remember your evil betrayal of the english"?

[Willem]

Re: One thing I'm disappointed in....

Originally posted by Velociryx
Again, the civs remaining near you don't blink. They just sit there like stalks of wheat before the scythe. Not blinking, not blanching or reacting at all that you just sent a wrecking ball through two of your neighbors.

That's not entirely true. There is a diplomatic penalty for attacking a civ another civ is friendly with. Though I can see the point you're trying to make.

[piawak]

Originally posted by couerdelion


The EU 2 Bad Boy rating was set so that you were almost constantly at war and this will destroy most games in this style of play. Also bear in mind that EU 2 was really a very easy game to master and beat at pure game-play unless you seriously disadvantage yourself.

Only if you started out being a war monger. If you were a little bit more selective in your targets and time you could conduct wars in EU 2 without a lot of BB points being added to you.

Also bear in mind that EU 2 was really a very easy game to master and beat if you played a major. Try GC as Ethiopia.

[couerdelion]

That's not how I remember it

Your BB rating came from peace settlements so if you started taking territory or wiping other states from the map your reputation started going downhill rapidly.

Negative ratings then dragged down relations and even if you have good relations with a nation (through gifts and the like), they might still declare war if you have the RoW on your back at the same time.

I just gave up one because it was boring. I have the troops to win these wars but was never allowed any peace for more than three minutes

[Hauptman]

Also they need to remeber not just the "badboy" rating but the "dontmesswithhim" rating as well.

Often a cranky neighbor attacks (usually at the most inoportune time) I then relieve him of the bulk of his military and a city or two, only to have the next civ try it.

Rinse and repeat and they never learn.

[vmxa1]

I can see some value in this so called bad boy consideration, but I would prefer them to make more sense out of the demand/beg aspect.

The call for more diplomacy can wait for another game in my book. It is not of interest to me. I understand others see it has useful though.

I just want a minor tweak to add some more defference to this annoying habit your so called friends have of asking for free techs.

The minute you say no it no longer matters how much you have given them in the past, it is merely what have you done fo rme lately.

This is less of an issue as you move up in levels, but I am still bitter about it from day one. That and they do not ever gift you anything and will often post techs as not to be traded, but you better not have any techs you won't give them.

Also they call on you to give them a resource for a lux. I mean you want stone/marble/copper and you will give a sheep? Yeah that sounds like an even deal, sign me up.

[Willem]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I just want a minor tweak to add some more defference to this annoying habit your so called friends have of asking for free techs.

The minute you say no it no longer matters how much you have given them in the past, it is merely what have you done fo rme lately.

What gets me is that quite often, in fact most of the time, they'll ask for a free tech even though they have one that I'd be happy to trade them for, even if I end up paying a bit of gold for it. Yet I don't even get the option to negotiate with them. I'm not in the habit of just giving away techs, I want something in return.

[Arrian]

I've taken to asking all pleased and friendly civs for tech repeatedly . I bug them just like they bug me. Sure, the -1 they give me is irritating, but that is offset by the free tech I'll get now and again.

...

BB rating:

Yes, I do think the AI could do a better job of recognizing a domino effect. They *do* seem reasonably good at attacking an aggressive player whilst said aggressive player is in the midst of another war, though. That in itself is pretty good.

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Caring what the other civs think about you (and doing something about it) is a lot more important on the higher difficulties. You cannot befriend everyone, but cannot ignore everyone either. You need to maximize your power within your sphere of influence, yet do it efficiently enough that AIs outside this sphere do not get too far ahead.

Ultimately, on Immortal, you end up conquering one civ after another (mind you, this is true of all TBS games I have played). But that's a very cynical way of looking at it. There's a lot of fun to be found in the details.

[Velociryx]

Oh I agree. I just think it'd be even MORE fun if they reacted in some way to your previous bouts of aggression.

There's a sortakinna nod to this in the form of the "you attacked my friend" malus, but it's a) not severe enough (and non-scalar...it is the same whether you sniped a worker or razed every city he had), and b) not long-lasting enough.

-=Vel=-

[Dominae]

A great modding opportunity, then!

[Velociryx]

Indeed.

-=Vel=-