And you, Sir, are worse than Hitler!

[xxFlukexx]

gdgrim is correct, I don't want to say it but getting tech through conquering a city or through demanding makes it so you can attack and grab a lot of land *and* tech with the best of them at the same time.

Makes sense to me realistically as well, Haven't nations been destroyed because they wouldn't give up their land or tech?

I mean I know if I was in the AIs position and all I had were 3 cities to the enemies 100 and I had Divine Right and the enemy had Modern Armor and Stealth bombers and nukes, and they demanded Divine Right I would say f off, you've already bashed my people down to 3 cities. I mean a nation that has conquered so much of my nation and other nations, who is to say they won't just attack me after I have given them Divine Right? Divine Right is my only leverage, after that I don't have any use to them. And yes, I do this in lots of games (demand tech/gold before I attack and if they accept my demand I attack them anyways)

[Crossfire]

Originally posted by Tammo


I have to agree...
...if you have a look at the present politicians I would think we would probably do much better with CIV-AIs as leaders :-)

someone said, that in medieval times civs would trade techs if threatened but not in modern times... well maybe this also has todo with the goverment-form they took...
...maybe it is built-in that if a civ is having a certain govermant their leaders will start doing illogical decisions...

in my opinion - just like RL :-)

Does this mean we in the US currently have Monty for a leader? Seems about right!

[snafuc4]

Originally posted by Ralph_Jackson
So yes illogical and non-strategic but pretty good artificial intelligence in capturing how a human leader would react!!

D'you know how depressing that sounds? Even more so 'cause it's correct.. (

[snafuc4]

Re: Re: And you, Sir, are worse than Hitler!

Originally posted by gdgrimm
They've set up Civ IV so that war seldom directly provides research. You have to do that yourself.

I appreciate what you're saying here, but can you say 'Werner von Braun'?..

A war machine in the post-Renaisssance eras is almost certainly going for tech advantage. You don't kill the scientists that will make your country great (whether they want to or not)! Artists, yes, maybe (esp. after radio/TV); priests possibly, but scientists & engineers never!

[Crossfire]

Not being a history buff, did von Braun emigrate to the states before or after the war? Was he involved in the rocketry research in Germany during ww2 or was he already here seeking sanctuary from persecution?

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Crossfire
Not being a history buff, did von Braun emigrate to the states before or after the war? Was he involved in the rocketry research in Germany during ww2 or was he already here seeking sanctuary from persecution?

Von Braun led the German development of the V2 Rocket during the war. As the war drew to a close, he and his team made a deliberate choice to arrange to surrender to the Americans rather than the Soviet Union. They eventually ended up in Huntsville, Alabama (where I now live) working for the U.S. government and forming the core of the early U.S. space and missile programs.

[Hauptman]

Von Braun was THE top guy in the nazi missile program, and a prominate figure in the US NASA program after the war.

German V2 rockets began beeing made and tested in the United States under his guidance. Ultimatly leading to the Apollo program.

The same goes for jet technology too.

The Russian MiG15 is a direct descendant of the 3rd generation* German jet beeing planned at the close of the war.

Historicaly techs do get helped along by conquest. But game mechanic wise, it would be unbalancing.



* considering the ME262 as 1st gen and the Heinkel VolksJaeger as 2nd gen.

[Quillan]

Perhaps instead the mechanic could work something like this: if you take a city from an opposing civ, you pick one tech they have and you don't, and earn a certain number of beakers towards that tech. Rather than getting a tech outright, you get a headstart on it (captured research data, working models for reverse engineering, and personell who can impart the information to you). Actually eliminating the civ could give beakers towards all techs they had that you didn't.

[Hauptman]

Originally posted by Quillan
Perhaps instead the mechanic could work something like this: if you take a city from an opposing civ, you pick one tech they have and you don't, and earn a certain number of beakers towards that tech. Rather than getting a tech outright, you get a headstart on it (captured research data, working models for reverse engineering, and personell who can impart the information to you). Actually eliminating the civ could give beakers towards all techs they had that you didn't.

Id be happy with that, as long as the tech was random, and the city had to be in their control for a lengthy amount of time and meet a certain size requirment.

I doubt they'd have valuable tech info in that crappy tundra city that never grew passed size 2.

And i dont want to be able to take a city, let them retake it, then take it again, until i have the tech. (exploitable)

[snafuc4]

Not a bad idea, Quillan

[Kc7mxo]

I think they need to add a +/- indicitaror to the diplomacy screen for fear/contempt.

So if you horribly outnumber an enemy and are beating the hell out of them, you'd have like a +4 fear. This could offset the other negatives, during war it could get a lot higher than in peace.

Otoh, there'd also be a direct indicator when someone thinks you're weak and pathetic, rather than the indicator being when a stack of 20 units show up on your doorstep.

[JackRudd]

Originally posted by Crossfire
Does this mean we in the US currently have Monty for a leader? Seems about right!

Dubya could certainly be modelled as an Agg/Spi leader, I suppose.

[Yosho]

"Millions in defense, not once cent in tribute!!!"

[MasterDave]

I think the AI is actually quite good. The different leaders have definite personalities, and I think that the AI does a great job taking advantage of the many, many game mechanics. Considering where our technology is today, and comparing it with the AI's from other games, I cannot think of a better system. (EU2 and RoN gets close, but those are real-time game and a somewhat different animal).

You can get an AI to cough up techs if you pound them hard enough, taking their capital helps convince them. Yesterday, I was beating on Monty so severely that he actually offered me a decent sized city that was closest to the border for peace. I was about to take that city anyway, so I turned him down, but that is the first time in Civ4 (since the patches) I saw an AI beg for peace and offer up a city.

[Crossfire]

I have also had Monty offer a city or one or more techs when suing for peace. Of course he is usually on the way to a sure death by the time he comes around. And then he can't be trusted anyway so I generally just eliminate hime while I am there.