some civics are very weak?

[maheu]

i'm playing civ4 for a while, and i realized that some civics like represantation, slavery, free speech or state properity rock while others like serfdom or merhantilism are never used or have minimal uses (other civics are balanced i think)
therefore, i recommend some changes in serfdom and merchantilism. they can easily be replaced by wonders (hagia sophia and statue of liberty), have (relatively) high upkeep, and are overall very veak.
Serfdom can be; high upkeep and +1 farm output
Merhantilism can be; ... (give me some advices
I also think that free market, police state and nationalism must be more powerful.

[Strategist83]

Anything is better than the initial tribal civics, that is for sure. So, serfdom is a good early civic. Besides, there can be only one Hagia Sophia.

[Dis]

I don't like pop rushing, so serfdom isn't too bad.

I have yet to tray mercantilism. The specialists can be pretty good, can't they? I just haven't had the courage to try it. .

[Hauptman]

when at war with the world, or no open borders, mercantilism is a huge benafit. but I hate to take the hit usually to the huge trade routes going to my capital that i get from free trade under peaceful games.

[player1]

I like Mercantilism the least.
I could be useful is rushed early and having no many trade partners, but in other situations...

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Strategist83
Anything is better than the initial tribal civics, that is for sure.

Not really. Why should I go to anarchy for 1 turn to get slavery, when I don't like to pop-rush? The cost of having nothing is the same IIRC, so there's no advantages

But Mercantilism is better than nothing at least. In my current game where I have open borders with 8+ civs I got a few coins extra per turn, than when I had the tribal civic

[Dis]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't like slavery.

down with slavery.

[player1]

No true.
Tribalism is Low upkeep and that IS much more then Slavery zero upkeep (as big difference as between Low and High upkeep).

And I use it just for the money benefit, not pop rushing.
(ok emergency rushing and low production world rushing sometimes)

[Adagio]

Originally posted by player1
No true.
Tribalism is Low upkeep and that IS much more then Slavery zero upkeep (as big difference as between Low and High upkeep).

Hmmm... I thought I checked a few days ago, where it said both had low upkeep

[TheHateMale]

I think it changed with the patch.

[alva]

Originally posted by Dis
I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't like slavery.

down with slavery.

Slavery can be a real life saver under certain circumstances.

As for not liking mercantilism...
What's not to llike about having several cities producing more than a 100 GL points per turn?

[Dry]

Originally posted by Dis
I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't like slavery.

down with slavery.

The slower you play (marathon), the more usefull it is.

Play an expansive civ, on huge, marathon and win 16 turns by pop rushing granaries in 1 turn. These early granaries will pay you back for the lost slaves.
Or win 10 turns pop rushing settlers (while you were producing it you weren't growing anyway).
Or don't bother being creative, pop rush the obelisks in 1 turn.
I won 30 turns pop rushing the Hanging Gardens in a low prod city of 12 - lost 6 pop, then grew back to 7 + 1 (thx granaries and the HG) in 1 turn - for merly 1 unhappy citizen.

[narmox]

As I'm finding out more and more playing the game, everything has a context where it shines, and a context where it's weak. This goes for civics, leader traits, units, unique units, and every strategy out there.

[Vynd]

Mercantilism can be really nifty. In one recent game I was running Mercantilism and Representation, and also had The Statue of Liberty (that's the one that gives a free specialist in every city, right?). So I had two free specialists in each city, all of which produce an extra 3 beakers per turn. Very cool.

I agree that Serfdom is kind of weak. If it was available early, like at the same time as Slavery, then it could be awesome. Take it and you could get all of the tile improvements you need done with half as many workers. That would let your cities build something else instead of workers, and quite possibly grow faster since they wouldn't be funneling food into worker production. Or build lots of workers and have them chop down forests at supercharged speed to get Wonders fast.

But of course Serfdom isn't available until significantly later in the tech tree. You pretty much need to have built quite a few workers by the time you get to it. And if you already have quite a few workers then you probably don't need Serfdom. They can get all of the improvements you need finished in time while building at normal speed. Especially considering that the need for workers tends to drop off as the game progresses, you stop building new cities, and your existing cities grow at a slower and slower rate.

[player1]

Originally posted by alva
As for not liking mercantilism...
What's not to llike about having several cities producing more than a 100 GL points per turn?

I would rather take 90GP and more commerce.