First strike.. Worth having?

[CreepyD]

In the past I've often seen first strike as possibly the best promotion..
I used lots of Cho No Ku's, some of which had 4-5 first strikes iirc.
However, they would still often be damaged against enemies which they had a clear advantage over.

So my question is just how many 'hits' does it take to kill a unit?
4-5 strikes could be only 10% of a unit's health, making the upgrade useless.
I know health increases as you go through the era's, but so does the dmg done.

I would have thought 4-5 first strikes and having double strength than the opponent (units same era), you shouldn't be hit at all most of the time.. but u are.

[TheHateMale]

Your first strikes are still capable of missing, and any first strikes the opposition has are subtracted from yours.

[CreepyD]

you right.
But still, I'm taking an example where I have a clear advantage, where probably all 5 first strikes will hit
Anyone know what kinda dmg this is equivalent to? on say a longbowman?

[Hauptman]

there is something wrong with "unfair" combat since 1.52, we have another thread pertaining to that. So it has nothing to do with the first strikes.

But since this recent patch many people are having completely overcommon "unfair" (as in twice the strength) combats going against the stronger apponent.

Now as far as first strikes worth... I absolutely love that promotion. On an even combat (macemen vs samurai) you definatly notice its value... basicly combat is the luck of the RNG. 2 samurai first strikes give you 2 chances to hurt them without them beeing able to hurt you, then from there that just puts you 2 "fights" ahead. Greatly increasing your chances to win an even fight.

Now prior to 1.52 first strikes OFTEN led to "unfair" combats leaving the first strike unit completely unhurt, as those first strikes could be enough to kill a unit alone, or very close to dead. even with whatever bug they added with 1.52 i still love the samurai to death.

[Strategist83]

Re: First strike.. Worth having?

Originally posted by CreepyD [/SIZE]
I would have thought 4-5 first strikes and having double strength than the opponent (units same era), you shouldn't be hit at all most of the time.. but u are.

First strikes only work when you are attacking. As a general rule, a first strike is more powerful than the generic '10% strength' upgrade.

You asked how many rounds there are in combat? Well, there are five so your 4-5 first strikes are extremely powerful - but not against units with the 'flanking' promotion.

[Hauptman]

I highly doubt first strike is for attacking units only, As that would make the machine gunners first strike choice rather silly.

And in the "goto combat" breakdown it does list first strikes for defenders.

[TheHateMale]

The number of rounds in combat depends on hit points (100 by default) and ability to knock them off, I'm pretty sure.

[CreepyD]

ok cool, this kinda clears it up a little, so it is pretty powerful.
I may have been unlucky a couple of times and thought it sucked, using it again now

[TheHateMale]

I've noticed in 1.52 that many units' innate first strike chance has changed to a definite first strike. This makes them a bit more powerful.

[Strategist83]

Originally posted by Hauptman [/SIZE]
I highly doubt first strike is for attacking units only, As that would make the machine gunners first strike choice rather silly.

And in the "goto combat" breakdown it does list first strikes for defenders.

Sorry! It is the 'flanking' promotion which protects against first strikes that works only on the offense.

[joncnunn]

Just about every non-generic advancement is better than that advacement in many cases.

What the generic advancements are for is advancing to several of the specalicities. A really good one is the anti-siege-weapons one, but that requires the generic +3.

So mix your units, any good stack should have a medic and a sentry, and then some first strike units, and some flanking units, some city raiders, and some anti whatever units your oppoents are commonly using.

[Urban Ranger]

Re: Re: First strike.. Worth having?

Originally posted by Strategist83
First strikes only work when you are attacking.

Are you sure?

Originally posted by Strategist83
As a general rule, a first strike is more powerful than the generic '10% strength' upgrade.

I am not sure about that. A first strike works nicely in even fights, giving you a free round. However, the 10% strength makes the fight uneven.

[bsdaddict]

first strike on a defender acts to nullify the attackers first strike, which means that if the attacker does not have any first strikes then first strike on the defender does nothing.

[Destroyer]

Originally posted by TheHateMale
The number of rounds in combat depends on hit points (100 by default) and ability to knock them off, I'm pretty sure.

Hang on, I thought Strength = hitpoints

So that first strike become useless late game.

Either way, does anyone have a clue how combat really works?

[TheHateMale]

You can look at the combat log (Ctrl-Tab or click the top-left button) to get more information.