Mechanics of Religion spreading

[popejubal]

Does anyone here know what the specific mechanics are for spreading religions?

In particular:
do any particular religious buildings (besides the Shrine)spread religions?
do priest specialists spread religions?
do Great Prophets assigned as super specialists help the spread?
does the chance of spreading a religion depend on how much of that religion there is in the rest of the
a) nation?
b) continent?
c) world?
Finally, does having a trade route to target cities help, or is it just Open Borders that lets the religions spread?

I like founding religions and I'd like to see my religions (and income) spread as quickly as possible. Also, I'd like to know what I can do to push my religions as opposed to allowing the AI's religions to spread unchecked. The specific mechanics would help for this and I haven't been able to figure it out from looking at any of the .xml files, etc.

[Blake]

Religion spreads along trade routes. Open Borders don't matter, the only religious benefit of Open Borders is being able to send in missionaries or build roads. It's important to have the physical trade routes - by river, road, coast.

The Holy City and Shrines are the only things that spread religion passively, they both use trade routes.

I believe religion spreads via a "Pull" system, a city decides it wants a religion and looks for connected holy cities, it will then "Pull" the religion from one of them, giving some preference to nearer holy cities. I've seen a religion spread to 3 different cities in the same turn.

The important thing is the physical trade routes anyway, that and missionaries. A religion will NEVER spread passively without a physical trade route to the Holy City.

[johnmcd]

Absolutely the faith will spread without a direct connection to the Holy City, actual trade routes are not the decider so much as possible trade routes. Civs you have never heard of can pick up your faith because it would be possible for you to have trade routes with them.

I’ve noticed periods of temple and monastery building seem to trigger conversions, almost as there was a ghost missionary from them.

Also, I’ve never seen a city that already has a religion spontaneously pick up another.

[Yuufo]

Do the holy cities spread their religion faster when the shrine is built? I've never come to know that, and the civilopedia says "the shrines spread religion"...

[Blake]

By "physical trade route" I meant literally "a route that can be used for trade", whether or not it's actually being used for city-city or civ-civ trades, by physical I mean "road, river and coast". I think that should have been obvious by my saying Open Borders don't matter? Because you can't have the transient commercial trade routes without the open borders.

In any case, a holy city that has no road, river or coast connection to any other city will never, ever spread passively.

The phrasing is difficult because people often assicoate the trade with open borders, but open borders only result in trade if there are actual physical connections between the two civs.

The most important thing for those new to religion to realise is that open borders wont help religion to spread at all, it's ALL about the roads, rivers and coast. The vagrants* that spread religion don't need a formal invitation. This is also known as the "Your religion can spread to Tokugawa" principle.

* I'd like to use the term "missionary" but that's a seperate unit that functions in a completely different way. Religions arent spread by traders because there doesn't need to be any actual trade. So vagrants (wanderers) is the best term I can use, they just need routes (roads, rivers, coast) to actually wander along.

Maybe I could say that "Religions are spread passively by wandering wise men, who travel forth from the Holy City by road, raft and sail boat".

No wonder the designers didn't bother trying to explain it properly

[johnmcd]

I guess I'd add to that
- Actual trade routes don't seem to increase the liklihood of a religion spreading
- Having an active commodity trade doesn't seem to increase chances
- Roads seem to be the top vector for religion spread

It would be interesting if the diasporas on conquering a city led to the faiths in that town appearing in most of the surrounding cities.

[Jabutron]

Originally posted by Blake
I believe religion spreads via a "Pull" system, a city decides it wants a religion and looks for connected holy cities, it will then "Pull" the religion from one of them, giving some preference to nearer holy cities.

I've had my religion pop up at the far side of an adjacent empire, and nothing else caught in between (until I started actively converting cities). The HC was nowhere near the closest one to that city.

Originally posted by johnmcd
Also, I’ve never seen a city that already has a religion spontaneously pick up another.

Mine do it all the time.

[Yosho]

Originally posted by johnmcd
Absolutely the faith will spread without a direct connection to the Holy City, actual trade routes are not the decider so much as possible trade routes. Civs you have never heard of can pick up your faith because it would be possible for you to have trade routes with them.

Actual commmercial trade routes do seem to make a difference, though. For example, when I am running a mercintilistic civic, my religion almost never spreads without using missonaries, open borders or not. It does once in a while, but it seems to happen a lot less.

I’ve noticed periods of temple and monastery building seem to trigger conversions, almost as there was a ghost missionary from them.

This, I have wondered about. Temples and such do SEEM to make religions spread faster; once I have Catholicism in a few of my cities, and build temples to it, it really seems to take off in the rest of my empire. I have not tested to see if that's actually true or not, though.

I also wonder if having a state religion, or if specific religious civics, makes that religion spread faster in your empire. The manual seems to hint that it might...

Also, I’ve never seen a city that already has a religion spontaneously pick up another.

Actually, this happens all the time. I have had 3 or 4 religions spread through my empire on their own, and I have seen that in the AI's cities as well. The civopedia says that cities that already have multiple religions are somewhat less likely to get a new religion, but it does seem to still happen sometimes.

[johnmcd]

I've noticed that missionaries are less likely to be successful when other faiths are present, but never have I seen passive religious spread where one exists.

[ravenight]

Originally posted by Jabutron


Mine do it all the time.

Probably because you didn't notice an AI missionary

[joncnunn]

Actually, in my experence, Rivers appear to be the top vector for religion spread. Mostly because they are already in place and don't need to be built.

Originally posted by johnmcd
- Roads seem to be the top vector for religion spread

[Yosho]

Originally posted by ravenight


Probably because you didn't notice an AI missionary

It seems like 1 or 2 AI missionary lands on my contentent, converts a few of my cities, and then the new religion spreads slowly on its own. At least, that was how it seemed to happen...I think I would have noticed more AI carevels dropping missionaries on my cities...

[Hauptman]

a city absolutly possitivly CANNOT HAVE PASSIVE RELIGIOUS SPREAD when it already has a religion in that city.

Any city that has NO religion has a random% chance to pick up any religion it has a trade route with... And it does not appear to require connection to the holy city. as I have played continents games where a continent had no religion on it until i sent a caraval with a missionary to spread it. it then spread on its own BEFORE i got astronomy. and wasnt likely the ai was making missionaries as it hapens rather fast in a barren environment, but it could have been possibly missionary spread...

If you get new religions in your cities that already had religion, it is because they just sent a missionary at you. I've watched for that as well.

[Blake]

Very fast missionary spread could be by Organized Religion.

edit: it's also possible if the AI has Astronomy, but that may not have been the case.

[Hauptman]

Originally posted by Blake
Very fast missionary spread could be by Organized Religion.

edit: it's also possible if the AI has Astronomy, but that may not have been the case.

he most possitivly did not. liberalism is my 20+ turn monopoly on astronomy almost every game. However i do wish i had checked his civics because i am curiose as to whether it was spread from missionaries or passive...

Guess i could play a quick noble or prince continents game and hog all the religions and give it a test.