So how in the world do you beat this game?

[Dis]

I need help .

I used to win on noble difficulty ( I can show you the saves if you don't believe me), but now I can't beat a single warlord game. That's 3 losses in a row. I'm really depressed right now. I hate to think a computer is smarter than me, but apprantly this is so.

The really ****ed up thing is I've been taking advice from you guys. I've been building lots of cottages. But usually Mansa Musa overtakes me on points. I simply cannot compete with him. Yeah I had the crappy romans (random civ), but I shouldn't have to take a financial civ just to beat the game.

You could say I should warfare early in the game to get more cities. But not in my last game. I was alone on an island, and had plenty of expansion room. I expanded fast, but not too fast I had to drop down below 80% science rate. I had the largest civ, but Mansa Musa overtakes me (in points). What gives?

[Guynemer]

Found religions.

Spread them.

Play to your civ's strengths--Praetorians own all.

Sell extra resources for cash.

Maintain close relations with the civs that are most likely to help you out in the long wrong, and don't try to please everyone--that's a surefire way to piss everyone off.

Use civics wisely.

If you can't seem to build the ship before Musa, go for the cultural win.

[Stageon]

*cough* Praetorians *cough*

If it's on an island, though, like you said, you'll have to come up with other plans. I wouldn't give up the combat idea though. Shake Mansa up by landing some troops on his island and forcing his workers to flee. Pillage some stuff...keep him guessing.

[Dis]

His island is very far away (and I still don't have galleons). I'd never get there in time.

And the thing is, I had a huge tech lead in the beginning. I founded every single religion except for 2. But suddenly Mansa comes up out of nowhere and surpasses me and starts snagging all the wonders and overtaking my score.

As for civics. Perhaps I'm not using them wisely. What's the best route? I really didn't have many options at this point. Except serfdom and caste system. I don't like those. I don't like slavery either. I usually do organized religion until free religion comes up.

[Dis]

here's a screenshot (taken a few turns before I was attacked, and lost my points lead)

You guys see any terraforming (worker) improvements I can make? Anything I'm doing wrong.

I used to build farms on floodplains. But in the strategy thread it said it was best to put villages/cottages on them. So I did that. I thought I would have a really good science city in my capitol.

I also build 2 academies with great scientists. I shouldn't be falling behind in score like this.

[Blake]

Mansa is a bit of a sod.

Victory mostly comes down to either superb micromanagment and planning of a small empire (ie national wonders and stuff), or making a large territory acquisition at the right time in the game.
That time is when you can afford to do so (due to a decent economy, tech for courthouses and stuff), but also early enough that you can build up the captured territory and it will significantly contribute to your research and production. Conquer too early and you might stagment for too long, conquer too late and the added expenses will just drive you down. Conquering not at all isn't a good idea unless you're already larger than everyone else, or if it's a terra map.

[Blake]

Okay, looking at the screenshot.

It looks like you could use more fishing villages. You're playing an organized/expansive leader. You NEEEEED to expand like some kind of weed, how do you expect those traits are going to help you more than say Financial if you don't have a larger empire? There's no such thing as a "marginal" city for such a leader, build every fishing village you can. Whip in lighthouses and granaries (be a slave master, not a wuss). Looking at the map I'd definitely found a city on the top-left corner island, and prehaps another in the desert at the bottom.

You should do something with Mao, either ship over Hindu missionaries or conquer him.

It also looks like you've over-emphasized religion. Doesn't look like it's gotten you anywhere as you have no religious allys and hinduism is only in a few of your cities (no yay for Organized Religion bonus?), I'd have stopped at Hindusim (and maybe tao or christ). There's a good chance that Isbella would have founded Juadism, and Frederick Taoism, removing them from Mansa's pocket. Also with only Hinduism in the picture it might have spread to Mao.

You should have pumped out hindu missionaries and converted all your cities to it, Organized Religion is too good for an organized leader to squander (used properly, org-org-religion is so much better than free religion). I'm not sure WTF the spiral is supposed to do without a properly spread state religion.

In short, what you've managed to do is actually harm your game through the (mis)use of religion. By taking other paths through the tech tree you can pick up a lot more real value - for example getting to paper via Civil Service.

Hope it doesn't seem I'm being too critical . But you wanted advice .

[Spaced Cowboy]

You need more cities!

Both Mao and Mansa have 8?

What is below you?

A nothern land mass isn't exactly prime real estate.

[Dis]

good advice above. Yes I am not good at spreading religion. Sometimes it spreads so easily. But it hasn't in this game. I think founding multiple religions actually hurt me. I could have gained more from other areas of the tech tree maybe.

A fishing village? Do you mean just a village that grows and basically only collects commerce (little production value)?

As for more cities. I'm still trying to get the right balance. I was getting to the point (after building those 2 on the islands you see) that I couldn't maintain 90% research rate. Is it okay to go lower on the research rate?

[Simplicity]

Actually, I can tell you exactly what the problem is.
You are on an island to yourself and most of your cities are landlocked. This means that all of those cities cannot cash in on those extremely valuable foreign trade routes, and instead must rely on trade routes within your own empire (which are even worse than land routes to foreign countries).

[Blake]

A fishing village? Do you mean just a village that grows and basically only collects commerce (little production value)?

A fishing village refers to a city which only works sea tiles (altough it can reasonably work 1 or 2 land tiles and still be classified as a fishing village). In any case it has next to no hammers. It produces a decent amount of commerce, a combination of the coastal tiles and trade commerce.

Due to the terminally low hammers the only real infrastructure is from whipping, the degree to which they should be infrastructure'd up depends on their resource situation, if they have no resources just whip them a Granary and Lighthouse (and maybe any half priced buildings). Since they don't grow very fast any whipping you do will reduce future income by virtue of less tiles being worked.

For cities with 2 seafood resources feel free to whip in a library and some happy improvements, they grow so fast they tend to hit the health limit fairly quickly. Whipping is ALWAYS best done when the city is small. Whip in the stuff the city needs then leave it in peace to grow.

[Blake]

Actually, I can tell you exactly what the problem is.
You are on an island to yourself and most of your cities are landlocked. This means that all of those cities cannot cash in on those extremely valuable foreign trade routes, and instead must rely on trade routes within your own empire (which are even worse than land routes to foreign countries).

Partly Nonsense, altough you're right that it is MUCH smarter to found coastal cities where possible. Being landlocked means you can't build a lighthouse or harbor, which means coastal tiles are gimped, your trade routes are less valuable, you have (up to) 3 less possible health and you don't get the bonus 2 trade routes from Great Library. And no ships.

The nonsense part: Landlocked cities can have foreign trade routes just fine, it just happens that harbors make cities more attractive to trade, so if foreign trade routes are limited they mostly end up going to coastal cities with harbors.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Simplicity
Actually, I can tell you exactly what the problem is.
You are on an island to yourself and most of your cities are landlocked. This means that all of those cities cannot cash in on those extremely valuable foreign trade routes, and instead must rely on trade routes within your own empire (which are even worse than land routes to foreign countries).

I was thinking about that. The funny thing is I thought it'd be better to take the recommended city spots. As I thought I lost my last game due to poor city placement.

[Feyd]

Dis,

Coming from a regular warlord player it doesn't look THAT bad, but there are a few things that glare out at me as well...

Being the founder of a religion is great, but you have to have trade with other nations to get it to spread. Secondly, even once you get those trade routes down you need to help the process along a bit by sending out missionaries like nobody's business. After you do this THEN you start gaining the benefits of the Super Temples (1 gold per city with your religon)

Another thing is that you are the Romans! Pax Romanus baby! "Roman Peace" you say? That means you are a civ suited to Classical Era warfare. Build up a tech lead and then focus on military in some high production cities. Have one churn out galleys and another 1 or 2 make Praetorians. Load them up and bring about some of that "Roman Peace" that occured after they destroyed any and all opposition.

Cowing the civ on the purple island west of you would suit this quite well. You have to get a move on, however, once you get a 1-2 tech lead because otherwise they'll start coming at you. I have been pleasantly surprised by the turn of events in Civ IV for my play. Used to I was always dead last in military might. If somebody attacked they didn't stand a chance because I had a unit two or three levels higher than their current tech, but I never "out militaried" the AI. Now I find myself almost always at the top and I like it. Much less problems from bad relations when the AI knows that you can roll over them in a few turns.

This all leads to your main problem, however. You're playing a strong land-based-army civilization on an Islands map. This hurts your chances at spreading religion too because not only would your armies be hard to move from one place to another, but your missionaries are (literally) in the same boat.

Anyway, Civ IV is a different ballgame. You can no longer "turtle" your way through the game with the same efficiency as before. Aggressive nations fueled by tech jealousy will attack every time unless you have a strong enough military to potentially pose an invasion.

So, long story short... build up that Navy detterent, Invest in a legion or two of Praetorian Guards and don't be afraid to throw your weight around early before the AI gets any funny ideas

Pax,

[Vimpster]

Although the game sometimes can make some decent choices for city placement, I find more often then not the game chooses pretty poor locations.