Island starts on Emperor

[AgentTBC]

I've gotten to the point where I can consistenly beat the Monarch difficulty level on a variety of map types so I'm starting to up the difficulty to Emperor for some games. I can't seem to get the hang of beating the AI on a standard size map of Continents when I get an island start with no contact with the other players.

Since I am on an island I can't launch any early attacks so that strategy is out. In fact, I can't launch any attacks at all until Astronomy which is a relatively late tech. And because I'm isolated, I have no one to trade with which really hurts my commerce. By the time I get Astronomy the Emperor AI has parlayed the research bonus into a big lead.

How do you handle an island start? I tried beelining for optics but that didn't seem to help a whole lot since Astronomy was what I really needed...

[Cort Haus]

How did you handle remote continental starts on Monarch, AgentTBC?

Genuinely isolated starts while the AI are all in peaceful contact & trading with each other can be tricky enough for me on Monarch, but as you seem to have got that licked, how did you do it?

I'm alright when the AI are partly isolated or divided by ocean themselves, but if 5-6 are all trading together they can be off into the distance by the time contact is made.

[Dominae]

If you have a large land mass all to yourself (presumably with multiple resources) it's possible to win without ever leaving home. What you will need to do this, however, is tech trading, so Optics is the critical tech.

Astronomy is only needed if your land mass is to small; you will have too few resources and too few tiles available, so you will need to trade and go a-conquering ASAP.

It's important to learn which islands are "big enough", because a push to Astronomy and full military build-up could actually set you back compared to the peaceful option.

Either way, there's a couple of things you can do economically to ensure you're not super-backward by the time you contact other civs.

1. Colossus and Great Lightouse. Actually any Wonder-hoarding strategy should work well, since you know you will not be needing a military. What you're trying to do with these Wonders is generate as many GPs as possible to keep you in the tech race. These two are especially good because they're synergistic and help your coastal cities (assuming you have a lot of these).

2. Cottages. Other than your Wonder city or two, fill almost every available tile with Cottages (even Plans and Hills). Build Libraries and keep your research rate as high as possible. Your infrastructre and military will suffer, sure, but if you're horribly backward when you meet the world this will not matter.

3. A Religion. What you're looking for here is to build the Shrine in order to get some additional gpt to keep your research rate high. If you're island is really small this may not be worth it. The AI has a tough time spreading its Religion across the Ocean, so piggybacking is not really an option (unfortunately, since it would help your relations). Caravals carry Missionaries, as I recall, so there's a chance that you can prey on a couple of faithless or near-faithless civs and make some friends and Gold that way.

4. Oracle slingshot. This one does not really depend on trading, so it's as doable as in any other game. Civil Service is perhaps the strongest option, but if there's something to be said for a complete beeline to Optics.

On an isolated start, it's a race to get onto the world stage and start trading. Thus, until you meet everyone else, Commerce is much more important than normal; I would say 1 Commerce = 1 Shield (usually it's 2/1 or worse). The exception to this is Libraries, you really want to build these as quickly as possible.

[Cort Haus]

Astronomy is only needed if your land mass is to small; you will have too few resources and too few tiles available, so you will need to trade and go a-conquering ASAP.

It's not so much lack of resources that is painful, as lack of coastal commerce. Without astronomy there are no trade routes worth speaking of. The Great Lighthouse gives +2 commerce to each city under isolation, but this is just peanuts compared to what its does when international trade is available.

I've just had a game (Monarch) where I researched Astronomy after Optics (to get some overseas commerce) and it took forever. Then the problem was that if I traded it around they could all come and (a) invade (b) pick off all the islands. If I didn't trade it round I was so far behind as to be dead, effectively.

Admittedly I hadn't been putting cottages on hills. That doesn't sound great news for production but if the only thing to build is a library then OK. Thing is, there are barbs to deal with, lighthouses and courthouses to build.

Pure Optics beelines can miss out a lot of stuff though. One of my better isolated games was when I got the Great Library - not exactly on the road to Optics. Courthouses are also needed to allow expansion on the home island without dragging down tech.

[Cort Haus]

oops. x2 post

[Dominae]

If your island is big enough that Barbs and Courthouses are concerns, I daresay you can with that Monarch game without ever leaving your rock.

Post a save, and let's find out!

[Cort Haus]

Triffic, Dom, thanks. Here's the save, and some notes.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=18997_CortHausAD-1480.Civ4SavedGame

In that save Astro has just been discovered. Looking at the F4-tech, it's either trade it or be forever out in the cold. You're probably right in that I don't need more land, and I have decent production, so a quick refocus on a defensive military should be sufficient to be able to trade Astro without worrying too much.

Diplomacy

The diplo situation is not good though, so war preparations will probably be essential. The Incas were the only civ who I could trade tech with post-optics, and I guess the reason why they were behind is because they are a Pariah, and trading with a Pariah can turn you into one - but I have no choice. Liberalism is some way off yet.

There seem to be 3 blocks -

Inca-Chinese Axis : Capec has offered Open Borders, but he is small, weak, and mostly surrounded by enemies. China have tradable resources, but no decent trade routes, and are not liked by most of the others. I might need to drop the Open Borders with him. China is the nearest military threat.

Freddie-Lizzie Axis : Freddie is annoyed with me but has potential good trades.

Washington-Hattie Axis : #2 and #3, on good terms with most.

Things might deteriorate further though after the post-astronomy tech bazaar, as I'll probably have to trade more tech with the unpopular Incas and Chinese.


The Cities

Kyoto - Science
Osaka - Gold
Tokyo - Secondary commerce & mish pump
Satsuma, Kagoshima - primary unit / SS part production
Edo - Naval production
Izumo - will be minor barracks city for cheaper units
Angle - FP city
Najoya - eventual Nat Epic & GP city

Others are mostly no0b coastals, eventually to be minor - medium commerce cities. A settler is hovering by the last site in the north, nervous about maint costs. Also, I'll probably have to settle the ice-island with iron - otherwise the AI will - and probably culture bomb it too.

Overall

The civ is in reasonable shape for production & growth, but some of those farms will have to get cottages soon. Prior to trading Astro, I suspect the top civs are maybe as far as 15 techs ahead.

[Dominae]

Thanks, Cort, I'll take a look at it shortly. I was hoping you could post the 4000BC save too...

[Cort Haus]

I don't have a 4000BC save, only a 3000BC one.

[Dominae]

All right, I took a look at your 1400AD save. Please excuse the lack of screenshots in the following discussion; I hope that what I say will make sense to lurkers without having to look at the save.

Overall, you seem to be in a relatively good position. After trading Astronomy I jumped up two position in Score, and was only 500 or so points behind the leader (while Score does not mean everything, it means something!). The game is definitely winnable.

The only thing that's a real cause for concern is the tech situation, which mind you is far from hopeless. As you mention, trading Astronomy around is a necessity. I would recommend getting as much as you can from it regardless of effects on diplomatic relations. Relations are a nice but intangible benefit, and you have more pressing concerns right now (namely, a Beaker shortage).

I would also recommend trading all your excess resources away to the civs that can offer some in return: I believe you have the biggest land mass to yourself with the most cities, so you'll ultimately make more use of the increased Health and Happiness. Again, I consider these things more important than diplomatic relations, at this stage of the game.

The diplo situation is not good though, so war preparations will probably be essential.

It depends on what sort of victory you're going for. The most painless victory for this game will be, I believe, Spaceship. For this, you have all the resources at your disposal, you just have to get back into the tech game. Tooling up for an intercontinental war is likely to be more expensive than it's worth; can you really expect to put a big enough dent in the top four civs before it's time to build the Spaceship?

In any case, to effectively wage war you'll need better troops, which means tech parity (at least), and you're quite far from that right now. You can catch up in tech, but by the time you do it will be Spaceship time. If you want to win by Conquest or Domination, rather, war preparations will be, of course, "essential", but 100 or more turns away. It's time to focus on research.

On that note:

1. You need a lot more Cottages. Your land mass is slightly annoying in this regard because of all the Plains, but in this case I think 1 Food X Commerce tiles are much more valuable than 2 Food 1 Shield tiles. Sure, your cities may be smaller than your Health/Happiness caps, but not by much. Biology is still a long ways off.

2. You do not need to be building military units. The AI still cannot mount a decent intercontinental invasion in Civ4, especially across Ocean tiles. If this is not security enough for you, one higher Hammer city should be sufficient for military units production. The rest should be retooled for Commerce.

3. You're producing too many Hammers. If you're not producing military units, you will run out of stuff to build. An example if your capital, which is a Science city but is only working 3 Cottages (furthermore it's running two Scientist Specialists even though you already have your Academy - I would remove those to grow some more Cottages). At this point in the game it even makes sense to start working some Coast tiles instead of Farm Plains tiles.

I see you're thinking toward the end-game by assigning certains cities as Spaceship part factories. I think this makes sense when placing your cities and choosing where to put your Wonders. But for a large part of the game the space race is a research race, not a production race. While Cottages need time to mature, Mines can be built and used instantaneously in the end-game when those Hammers are needed.

4. You're not running Organized Religion. This Civic is the number one way of keeping your production high while spamming Cottages. As an isolated builder, 95% of your cities produce buildings, so Org. Rel. acts as a free Forge in each. The high upkeep cost is more than worth it. Monotheism is a good example of one of those techs that you should get before an Optics beeline, given that you have a Religion.

That's my bit about Cottages versus Hammers. Here are a few notes on city (micro-) management:

a. Lay off the Courthouses! I'm serious. In your newest cities (and some of your middle-sized ones) you are building Courthouses before anything else. The Maintenance in these cities is between 5-6gpt, so your Courthouses will provide 2gpt each. This not worth slowing down your population growth via Granary and infrastructure growth via Forge; I would build both of these before considering a Courthouse (and Fishing Boats, Lighthouses, too). Just working two Coast tiles is equivalent to building that Courthouse, so growth (in this case) is better.

The problem with Courthouses is that no multipliers act on their savings. So unless you are building many many (too many) far-flung cities, usually growing your city faster is better than a Courthouse (especially if that city works Cottages). I'm not against Courthouses: they help you keep your Science rate closer too 100%, which in this game is critical. They're a priority, but not a top priority.

b. Grow your cities! Almost all of your cities are 2-3 points under their Happiness of Health caps; your newest cities are sacrificing growth to build Courthouses (the only times I sacrifice growth are: when completing a Granary, when building a Work Boat, and when under intense military pressure).

It may be that, if you rework your land and build some Cottages instead of Farms, your cities will not be able to grow as big. Right now growing is giving you an extra 1 Hammer (or 1.5 with Forges and Org. Rel.). So I would suggest growing your coastal cities to max size in order to use those Coast tiles, and stop growth in your inner cities by building Cottages.

c. What to do with Great People? Right now, it looks like your plan is to produce Great Prophets in your Shrine city and Great Scientists in your capital. I'm frankly unsure what to do about this, but it seems something better could be worked out. A dedicated GP factory is probably better, if the land allows it; let the other cities work Cottages, which are better in the long run.

One thing for sure though: since you're running Bureaucracy, your capital and Science city should be working Cottages rather than supporting 2 Scientist Specialists. You already have your Academy, so focus on tile output in your capital, and let some other city accumulate GPs.

d. The Monastery question. I'm not quite sure what you are doing with Monasteries. They're definitely a good build for you because you're behind in the tech race, however you appear to be building them in cities that are Hammer-rich instead of Commerce rich. Are you trying to spread foreign Religions, in order to maximize Free Religion? Or are you perhaps planning to switch over your State Religion for improved relations with some other civ? Those are both viable options. But if you're just building them for the Science, they should only go in your high-Commerce cities. Since you can build Observatories now, I would do those first, though.

And that's all I can remember for now!

I hope this is helpful. Please excuse the tone of my post if it I sounds like I have all the answers - it's much easier to criticize than to play! I look forward to your responses.

[Cort Haus]

Dom, that's brilliant. Thanks for this analysis.

You're right - I'm too paranoid about maint costs, and tend to prioritise Courthouses over growth. I usually fear that if I build a granary first, the increased pop will cause more harm than good on the civics bill. I'll try and get a cottage worked early instead of the CH next time, and let it grow more.

More cottages - yeah, I was intending to convert some of those farms once growth had got to a certain point. Growing just for another couple of 2-1-0 tiles might not be worth it though.

GPs : The priests & scientists in the shrine city & capital were to try and get some early GPs until the 3 food-special city at the far end of the island gets the Nat Epic.

Military : I take your point about the AI not being at its best with Intercont' invasion, but with a small military there are still the demands and threats which are a nuisance. I've had them dump 2 or 3 galleons worth before - what sort of defence force do you usually rely on when you're on an island?

I don't have Monotheism yet because of the pure beeline, hence no Org Rel. Pure Optics beelines miss a lot of stuff out - I won't be doing that again. I think I was planning to spread the religion for the Shrine income and maybe build an ally.

Thanks again for this, Dom - there's much food for thought there - very helpful.

[Modo44]

Nice read.

I had a similar situation lately, and I got thrashed. My island was a bit smaller compared to what the AI had (Emperor, Continents, Huge, Marathon). My civ was Persia. I had one luxury and a few food resources on my island, one Stone, no Marble. I know I still have problems choosing the right techs to research, and I really suck at making Great People (none of which is much of a problem on Monarch). The point about AI being bad at invasions overseas is moot when the raiding party is using Grenadiers against my (just upgraded to) Longbows.

The game took very long to loose, but if anyone wants to give it a try: