This is NOT Pangaea

[Sirian]

Originally posted by Platypus Rex
both were tiny, temporate, high, natural

I'm not sure why you're testing Natural. Civ4 shipped with error handling for Natural and Pressed shorelines, set at 20%. There was NO error handling on Solid because I had never seen an anomaly on that setting and did not believe it needed any security.

The only thing changed in this beta version is added error handling for Solid shorelines.


Anyway, to everybody who tested this beta: thank you. It seems to be doing its job, so I've passed it on to Soren and it should be out with the next patch.

(In the mean time, you can play the patched version now, of course. Just grab it and use it instead of the old version, any time you play Solid or Random shorelines.)


Just to be clear: Solid Shoreline is the setting to pick if you DO NOT want any chance of tiny islands, thin peninsulas, fjords, etc. If you don't have a preference, then Random is recommended, as all possibilities are on the table for Random, and this will give you the widest variety of maps.


- Sirian

[Addled Platypus]

just testing a wide varity of settings, just because

[Guynemer]

Sirian, this probably isn't the thread for it, but since you are the map guru maybe you'd have an interesting take on this idea:

Why not a total randomize map option? It'd be fun to play without knowing that I'm playing on an archipelago or a pangaea. There could be multiple random map options, for regional maps, world maps, SP focused maps, MP focused maps...

[Sirian]

Originally posted by Guynemer
There could be multiple random map options, for regional maps, world maps, SP focused maps, MP focused maps...

That might be good.

Believe it or not, however, Soren wants the options limited, not expanded. Too many options intimidates and confuses people.

In the case of things that are missing, often I have thought of them, but they were not implemented for a variety of reasons.

I don't personally support the idea of a Random option that picks ANY script. The differences in gameplay and game balance between the scripts are too wide. (For instance, the difference between a Standard map size for Terra and Team Battleground is major.)


Maybe at some point, more options can be put on the table.


- Sirian

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Sirian
I don't personally support the idea of a Random option that picks ANY script.

That makes sense. But at the very least, a Randomize Classic option (Pangaea, Archipelago, Continents) for some of us old timers.

[Sirian]

Originally posted by Guynemer

That makes sense. But at the very least, a Randomize Classic option (Pangaea, Archipelago, Continents) for some of us old timers.

I produced one in early November. Firaxis has it. It's up to them whether or not they want to release it.

*shrug*

(Although the Pangaea portion lacks the Solid Shoreline fix from this thread. ... I'll add that for them, though, if they change their mind about not releasing it.)


- Sirian

[Guynemer]

Bless your heart.

[Addled Platypus]

thanks for your support Sirian

[devincutler]

Sirian:

I, like the other poster, enjoy not knowing whether I am playing on a Continents game or an archipelago game or a pangea game. This is especially enjoyable when playing SP, like I do, since it adds to the mystery of the start of the game and make exploration much more important.

I have tried the random continents setting and have found the maps generated thereby pretty horrible (with all due respect). The random continents script seems to basically place the entire map full of land, then place a sea border around the edge of the map, and then cut the land mass into pie shaped wedges using oceans to get the number of continents desired. This leads to very strange and unrealistic land masses, including straight line coasts that run up and down the right and left map edges because, unlike Civ 3, for some reason land masses are deathly afraid to wrap around the globe in Civ 4.

Is there any way to fix the random continents so that the land masses look better?

Also, why can't land masses wrap around the map?

Devin

[Enigma_Nova]

Sirian: Let us suppose you were to do contract work for ... let us say ... a third party. This third party would be interested in funding the ... let us say ... 'finalisations' to all the scripts that never quite left development.
How much would this generic third party have to pay you in order for you to complete work on these scripts?

[Sirian]

Originally posted by devincutler
Is there any way to fix the random continents so that the land masses look better?

Play the default Continents script if realism is your priority. The landmasses generated there can wrap around the map edge. (They will also do so in Archiepelago, Ice Age, and Tilted Axis).

Custom Continents is put together region by region. The priorities are on making sure that a specified number of continents exist, without overlapping one another, and on varying the shapes and dimensions of these continents. There are scripts that prioritize "realistic" landmass shapes, but they can't give you a specific number of landmasses. You can't have everything in one script. Each script or setting prioritizes something, which by definition de-emphasizes other priorities.

So... You can have your choice. You can have realistic landmasses, or you can have control over how many landmasses there are. The processes that produce more "realistic" shapes require hands-off from the scripter, and thus offer less control over what comes out. It is the very act of taking control that causes some loss of realism.


Willem was complaining about the civ spacing and number of civs per continent. Custom Continents will do a better job in these areas, on average, than will the standard Continents -- but your issue is something else entirely. So your solution lies with other scripts.


- Sirian

[Sirian]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
This third party would be interested in funding the ... let us say ... 'finalisations' to all the scripts that never quite left development.

There are only two scripts which haven't been released.

Fantasy Realm requires technical support help: they have to add support for simultaneous X-and-Y world wrap, which isn't there yet. (The script itself is done, it was finished before the game went gold.) Or they have to decide that they never will add that support, and the script can be released without the dual-wrap.

The "classic random" that we've been discussing in this thread is also done. On reflection, the "fix" for Solid shoreline pangaeas is unnecessary anyway, since the error rate is low and even if there is an error, then it only comes out as adding a little more variety to the list of random options. (False pangaeas are a problem to a pangaea script, but they are just another Continents map for a random script, right?)

There's nothing on these two scripts for me to do. It's up to others as to whether or not you ever get to play them.


- Sirian

[Mudhut]

I just wanted to add my $0.02 and say that Sirian has done a brilliant job with these map scripts.

I for one actually like the small amount of uncertainty (ie when the pangaea map occasionally turns out to not be pangaea). There is nothing like the surge of realisation when it hits you that your gameplay has been built around an assumption that was incorrect. ("Where did Mansa Musa get those three boatloads of Riflemen from? I have him down to one city...unless....uh oh!!")Granted, it was an assumption that I told the computer to make, but I still feel it adds to the gameplay experience when you get thrown a curve ball and have to adapt.

Of course, even I wouldn't want this to happen too often. That would get annoying.

-Mudhut