Culture - what is it good for?

[davidbrake]

OK I am coming to things a little late - I got Civ IV for Xmas... I am trying to figure out what benefits a high culture get you. Here's what I have concluded so far.

1) Better defense for your cities with high culture (presumably a marginal benefit)
2) Bigger borders - the biggie. But you can do without lots of culture if you build more cities instead (though this costs you money). I wish your high culture cities were allowed to work any of the land that is covered by its culture radius - that would be cool!
3) Culture victory - strikes me as a slow way to victory but obviously that's a good reason to have high culture
4) Culturally grabbing other civ's cities - how hard is this to make happen? Under what circumstances will it work best? How long does it take? Is the overall cultural level of your whole empire what is important or is it the culture level of the closest city? Can you get an enemy city to the point where it has no border on the side closest to your nearest city? (Ie the city centre is right on the border)?

Are there any other benefits of having a high culture that I am missing?

[Verrucosus]

Merry Christmas!

I think your list is quite comprehensive. I was wondering whether your overall culture level affects diplomacy, but so far I haven't noted any effect apart from the close border penalty (which is indirect).

One important aspect is the effect of a former owner's culture on a captured city. The city will never culture-flip, but the surrounding terrain has to be converted tile by tile. This can take ages and, after unrest has ended, the conquered city can be threatened by starvation. In one case, I actually turned cottages on the few tiles that I did control into farms to stop the city from shrinking.

I haven't played that many games yet, but large scale conquest seems rather difficult under those conditions.
Taking border cities is well and good, but taking an opponent's core city behind the frontlines (for example by a surprise amphibious assault) would probably give you a city with no workable tiles. In that situation the only hope might be to take the enemy entirely out of the game to make his cultural influence vanish immediately. (That last bit is speculation on my part, but I'd be surprised if it worked otherwise.)

[Quillan]

It does and doesn't work like that. If you look in the city screen, or hold your mouse over a square outside, it will give you a reading of the dominant culture and its percentage. The old culture doesn't go away even if the civ is removed from the game, but it can no longer be dominant and there is no longer any pressure from that culture, so it can do nothing but decrease as time passes. However, in a situation where a square was influenced by three different civilizations, removing one of your opponents might make the other dominant now.

[djpsychonaut]

Originally posted by Verrucosus
I haven't played that many games yet, but large scale conquest seems rather difficult under those conditions.
Taking border cities is well and good, but taking an opponent's core city behind the frontlines (for example by a surprise amphibious assault) would probably give you a city with no workable tiles. In that situation the only hope might be to take the enemy entirely out of the game to make his cultural influence vanish immediately. (That last bit is speculation on my part, but I'd be surprised if it worked otherwise.)

Yes, this is true. If you're planning to take cities from another civ, then plan to take out the whole empire or else you'll have a whole set of tiles that will not be workable for some time.

[djpsychonaut]

Re: Culture - what is it good for?

Originally posted by davidbrake
4) Culturally grabbing other civ's cities - how hard is this to make happen? Under what circumstances will it work best? How long does it take? Is the overall cultural level of your whole empire what is important or is it the culture level of the closest city? Can you get an enemy city to the point where it has no border on the side closest to your nearest city? (Ie the city centre is right on the border)?

This is a random process, but you'll know the cities that are going to flip. They're the ones that are virtually surrounded by your empire. Your borders will open and engulf them like an amoeba.

You might even notice that the city goes into civil disorder with an event being noted that a city is going into revolt because of your civilization. This is a failed attempt at them trying to flip to your side. The people might attempt to revolt against their native civ a few times before finally joining your empire, or they might just flip... it all depends.

[Crossfire]

The other useful option with culture is to put a new city near an opponents newish cities and have a Great Artist paint a masterpiece in the new city. It will expand borders 3 or 4 times (increase culture by 4,000) and you can engulf the enemy city with your culture. Wait a few turns and that city will flip to you. The older and larger an enemy city is the less likely you are to flip it.

[Mujadaddy]

"1) Better defense for your cities with high culture (presumably a marginal benefit)"Decidedly not! Walls fall to gunpowder, but your culture is always effective!

On the Great Artist/Culture uses front, I save all my great artists for war now---as cultural considerations are paramount in (well, after) war. The GA will not only instantly quell the unrest in, say, your opponent's capital, he will give the 4000 culture you need to keep that site for as long as your military can hold it! The benefits of a "FREE city" with no deadly size-shrinking rioting are incredible, especially if the captured city has lots of wonders/shrines/etc...

[davidbrake]

How important is the overall culture of your civilization? Is there any point in having a huge culture level in your capital if it is well away from other civs (aside from the possibility of winning a cultural victory)? Ie if you have a medium culture city on the border but your overall culture is high does that help?

[Crossfire]

Only in the sense that many of the buildings that up your culture also up your production of great people. And producing lots of great people is necessary on the higher difficulty levels.

[joncnunn]

Re: Culture - what is it good for?

I'd classify it as a major benfit; for one thing high culture cities don't need walls nor castles. (which also do no good against gunpowder units anyway.)

But that enemy army can do a lot more damage to your economy than in prior versions of civ without ever attacking your cities themselves. (Cut your farm chain, destroying resources, pillaging your towns, etc.)

The high culture also denies nearby rival cities the power to work those tiles in turn.

Actually, you can chop forests anywhere in your cultural zone no matter how far it is from your city and benfit from the sheilds. You can also chop forest in netural tiles and benifit as well.

Culturally grabing a rival's city seems to require in addition to massive culture, the victum city having your state religion instead of it's empires state religion. However, even if you don't succeed in getting a nearby city to join your empire you can still make it to where it's costing the civ more in maintence cost than it's taking in.

Originally posted by davidbrake
OK I am coming to things a little late - I got Civ IV for Xmas... I am trying to figure out what benefits a high culture get you. Here's what I have concluded so far.

1) Better defense for your cities with high culture (presumably a marginal benefit)
2) Bigger borders - the biggie. But you can do without lots of culture if you build more cities instead (though this costs you money). I wish your high culture cities were allowed to work any of the land that is covered by its culture radius - that would be cool!
3) Culture victory - strikes me as a slow way to victory but obviously that's a good reason to have high culture
4) Culturally grabbing other civ's cities - how hard is this to make happen? Under what circumstances will it work best? How long does it take? Is the overall cultural level of your whole empire what is important or is it the culture level of the closest city? Can you get an enemy city to the point where it has no border on the side closest to your nearest city? (Ie the city centre is right on the border)?

Are there any other benefits of having a high culture that I am missing?

[joncnunn]

Originally posted by djpsychonaut

Yes, this is true. If you're planning to take cities from another civ, then plan to take out the whole empire or else you'll have a whole set of tiles that will not be workable for some time.

But also note that completly wiping out a civ does not end their resistance early. [Unlike Civ III]

In my previous game, I drew a nine turn resistance from capturing my rival's last city, which was their capital and a holy city.