Some ideas for the expansion

[Cort Haus]

not everybody getting Hermitage, for example, but England getting Buckingham Palace, France getting Louvres, etc.

The Louvre is indeed a magnificant symbol of art & culture. Buck House is only a symbol of a defunct Monarchy, but I know what you're getting at.

Thing is, Paris has this very focused cultural building, wheras other capital's cultural engines are spread out around various galleries, museums & institutions.

[Cort Haus]

I think what everyone should consider when suggesting features is "how well could the AI realistically cope with this". If the AI can't cope, then more 'cheats' will have to be added to compensate, and we know what people think about that. It only takes a second to have an idea - even a great idea. Implementing it well can take much longer.

I suppose that adding features for multiplayer use only would be a lot easier, but Civ will always be core SP, so the AI has to deal with the rules somehow.

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by arcady


A mod editor is all fine and good, but it doesn't sell supplimental product. It hopes to boost initial sales at the portential expense of future sales. Besides, most of us are not programmers (defeating the notion that it boosts initial sales - but if the few who do mod are good at it, it still reduces future sales).


Your mention of 3D brings up something else I would like to see - the ability to rotate rather than always having 'north' at the top of the screen. It doesn't really feel 3D if its always from the same perspective.

I don't know, they keep advertising that the editor is so simple to use that anybody can do it. Does anybody want to comment that's actually used the thing?

I have system problems yet even after 1.52, which is the other reason I'm afraid to meddle. (See extended rants on thread "what I don't like about Civ4." ) At least now, as long as I don't mess too much, I can get through most of a game without crashes. I tried once to use the "world-builder," the terrain-only editor, in mid-game as advertised and it locked up the whole game, forcing system restart, which is time-consuming and stresses my system. Me done with that.

Ditto for 3D, which actually has an advertised command to rotate the perspective, as you desire. According to the manual; and the keyboard guide I got with my deluxe; it is shift-left arrow to go left, in 45 degree increments; and control-left arrow to "lock" it in that perspective; and you do the same except "right-arrow" to shift view to the right. I won't do this either, because rapid commands to the video drivers crash my game.

[Willem]

I want Tourist Attractions back. I thought that was kind of a neat feature in Civ 3 and with all the Wonders in the game, it would be a nice way of generating some extra revenue.

[TheHateMale]

You do have similar things in Civ4. The holy shrines, one of the wonders makes religious buildings give you money... Shouldn't be too difficult to mod in though. If they still get the double culture after 1000 years you could add a gold to it as well.

[johnmcd]

Civs,
- Add the Sumarians with Gilgamesh as the leader
- Add the Scots with Alexander III as the leader
- Add the Norse with St Olaf as the leader

Mechanics
- Allow the game speed and the number of turns to be set seperately. I love the marathon game speed, but the normal game length, ie, let players choose the era of the game they enjoy most be the major focus of the experience.

Features
- A new understanding of trade, it should be the primary vehicle and reason for exploration, it was every bit as important to the development of civilisation as war yet it is represented by a wholly automated and almost irrelevant mechanic whereas war and prepartion for war is half of everything you do in the game.
- Defined culture. Culture just now is a number that reflects 'Frenchness' or whatever. It should be than that. A city founded on a hill might have a mountain culture that allows it to draw production from a peak but less from wheat fields. A costal city may have an ocean going culture that limits it's use of hills but gives it cheaper boats and more commerce from the sea.
- Culture that spreads like people do. If I found a city on one side of a mountain range that I cannot traverse, how come my culture leaps it effortlessly? It seems that culture ought to flow easily down rivers and across plains but stutter on hills and be blocked by mountains or coast (prior perhaps to air travel or fishing). I kind of feel city tiles should be worked according to a similar sort of pattern too).

[Aro]

Originally posted by johnmcd
Civs,
- Add the Sumarians with Gilgamesh as the leader
- Add the Scots with Alexander III as the leader
- Add the Norse with St Olaf as the leader

Babs!!!

Babylon, please. Btw, they already have their own XML files, IIRC...

[TheHateMale]

Originally posted by johnmcd
Civs,
- Add the Sumarians with Gilgamesh as the leader

I'd like to hear the music through the ages for him. (Thinking FF5..)

[Imran Siddiqui]

I agree with the notion that trade should be reworked. The Americas were discovered by Europeans (well.. aside from the Vikings, who didn't stay long) for the purposes of trade. They were trying to find a new trade route to the orient.

We should have trade centers in strategic locations (makes a ton of money) and trade routes that can be affected by war or piracy. It should be a source of money... but it can't be too powerful, or else we'd have too much money.

[Odin]

New Trait:
Agricultural(Agr): +1 food on city tile and improved tiles with food resources. -50% production cost of Grainery


New Civs:

Babylonians: Agriculture, The Wheel
Hammurabi (Agr/Org) prefers Hereditary Rule
Nebuchadrezzar (Exp/Cre) prefers Hereditary Rule
UU: some kind of Archer?

Scandinavians: Fishing, Hunting
Gustavus Adolphus (Spi/Exp) prefers Organized Religion
Canute The Great (Agg/Fin) prefers Representation (the Vikings had democratic local governments, such as the Icelandic Althing)
UU: Berserker (replaces Swordsman)

Hebrews: Mysticism, The Wheel
David (Spi/Agg) prefers Theocracy
Ben Gurion (Phi/Org) prefers Nationhood
UU: Merkava(sp?) (replaces Tank)

Poles: Agriculture, Hunting
That King at the seige of Vienna, John IIRC? (Exp/Agr) prefers Representation (the polish monarchy was elective)
UU: Hussar (replaces Knight)


New Improvements:
Highways
Canals
Polders (think Netherlands)

[johnmcd]

With a 'viking' civ, we have to be clear, the common people of the Norse world despised the vikings and feared the berserks, they were pirates and raiders of their own people as well as the rest of the world. A farming people with enormous cultural importance that happened to throw off a powerful pirate offshoot, much like the Elizabethan English. Blackbeard should not be seen as the achievement of the age just because he successfully terrorised shipping lanes.

[Enigma_Nova]

Needs the Siamese to fill a gap in the world map.
These are the people that built Angkor Wat, you know.

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by Aro


Babs!!!

Babylon, please. Btw, they already have their own XML files, IIRC...

I think the Babylonians will get in anyway. I was really just championing some less likely candidates. I think the Ottomans and the Carthangians should also get in for sure. Attaturk, Mehmet the Conqueror and Hannibal probably.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by johnmcd
- Add the Scots with Alexander III as the leader

With the perpetual annoyance-to-Scots of having the English civ in every version, I can understand why you're saying this, John, but it seems to me that the sensible thing would be to have the British Civ. The alliance between England & Scotland made the British Empire (pirates aside) and I wish the game would finally recognise this.

Originally posted by johnmcd
Features
- A new understanding of trade, it should be the primary vehicle and reason for exploration, it was every bit as important to the development of civilisation as war yet it is represented by a wholly automated and almost irrelevant mechanic whereas war and prepartion for war is half of everything you do in the game.

No, not Civ 1 & 2 caravans!

Building trade routes manually with those damn caravans was the most tedious part of the game. Getting my third trade route in for my last city was always the cause for celebration.

From a design perspective, its impossible I suppose because one player's fun is another player's tedium. There is a genuine desire, I think, not to have games that last too long - especially when there can be much variety between games. More is not always better, and adding detail into one feature might mean removing others.


-Cort, 1/8th Scottish

[johnmcd]

The 'English' thing is annoying, especially when 'British' Leaders are used. Also, the period that probably seals England's inclusion is post union.

By a development of trade I absolutely don't mean the reintroduction of camels, they were shocking! I don't really know what would be best, I just know that for something that has shaped mankinds wars and wants since the first time someone didn't unpitch their tent it's very underreprestened in the game.