Game Over after won war?

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by Blake
It's worth noting that larger cities have higher maitenance, thus poprushing in the more distant cities can actually improve your income situation.

Good idea. I wonder what the maintenance function for population is? Am I correct in thinking that buildings no longer incur maintenance costs like previous versions?

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by Grenouille
No, I`m not asking for an easy way out, but for a way out, and I even stated that it can/should be costy.

I think it`s a good thing to have expansion limited, but it shouldn`t mean that the game becomes unplayable when you do this mistake of overexpanding. Instead, it should punish the player, but give him the opportunity to get out of the situation, i.e. by a revolt in the economical collapsing cities, a civil war, the loss of the conquered territory, etc..

I think that would be much closer to reality, and more fun to play, than having a civilization in an dead end, that can still exist for a few more millenia with zero gold and no units, until some AI player finally conquers you.

Boy, is this thread depressing or what? I didn't get to look at your download, but the question is begged and I don't see it answered so far, what difficulty are you running? The grognards here are definitely right that this is a "new game." Probably you are a busy person that wants to salvage the investment of time when a game starts to go south. Sometimes you just can't. I went bust on Noble recently and it is a pain to see first units on strike and then sold off. I was 1 turn away from capturing a barbarian city that would have alleviated my gold situation and the financial governor disbanded all the city raider units I had in front of the barb booty. I hit the restart, what else can you do?

Again, this is a new game. I lost most of a cool dozen playing on too high a difficulty levels because I figured, "heh, I've played 200 games of Civ3." Wrong answer! One of the differences between the difficulty levels are maintenance/unit costs and certain "bonuses" given on lower levels that disappear as you move up in difficulty. I would listen to the people here who are trying to salvage your game; I unfortunately don't have any sterling answers myself. If it still s-cks in another 10 turns, do your peace of mind a favor. Reset.

[Cort Haus]

Grenouille, this isn't Civ 2 where you could just spam units until you'd won the game. It's harder than that.

Specifically, I've looked at your save, and the game is certainly over. While the terrain is not very cottage-friendly, you could have built lighthouses in the coastal cities and worked coast tiles for commerce.

You're playing Noble & Marathon. I'd say play a faster gamespeed until you've got the hang of the tech tree, as I think Marathon can get you stuck for a lot of turns if you take a wrong turning. Your wrong turning was to beeline for Optics along the bottom row, via all the military techs, before getting important economic techs like Code of Laws for the courthouse, which is a must-have for serious expansion plans.

One other tip, and this one is Firaxis' fault, don't build harbours unless you have a trading partner. If no partners are available with reachable sea-routes and open borders, harbours are a complete waste of hammers as they will do nothing at all. Basically the harbour does not work as stated - it instead pulls better trade routes when they are available, but if foreign trade routes are not available it does nothing. Lighthouses to allow coastal commerce tiles to be worked are better.

[Enigma_Nova]

So that's why my Great Lighthouse / Harbor combo starts screwing up when I go to war with everyone.

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
So that's why my Great Lighthouse / Harbor combo starts screwing up when I go to war with everyone.

Yeah, I found out you don't need the harbor to export resources or upgrade local units, as you did in Civ3. Nice of them to make it so easy on us foreign colonizers, but probably a little sacrifice in the "realism" sphere, if that concept can be applied to Civ at all. (Are you really going to offload all those new machine guns on that little quay off the spit?? )

[Mujadaddy]

Total war cannot be pursued without allocating money to it, ie, away from science and into the treasury.

That's just how you have to do it... when you stabilize and get banks & courthouses in all your cities, you'll have an ENORMOUS empire generating science equal to your rivals at 1/2 the science%rate%...

Good to note on that Harbor thing, tho... So Harbor+Mercantilism=waste-of-time then?

[Blake]

Well harbors still have the health bonus.

IN general you should only really build harbors in large cities which will benefit most from both the trade bonus and the health bonus. Harbors give nearly no trade bonus for small cities if larger cities already have harbors (the +50% thing isn't accurate, it's more like +15% plus rearranging the trade routes so good ones go to large harbor cities).

[Enigma_Nova]

Or unless you are Expansive!
<--- Bismarck chuckles at you

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
Or unless you are Expansive!

I play Romans often, so that harbors are a natural, but I also don't wage war with everyone at once.

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
<--- Bismarck chuckles at you

I want Bismarck back. Love it when he chuckles.

[Cort Haus]

So, what do you think, Grenouille? Have we answered your question?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Blake
Well harbors still have the health bonus.

Erm, yes.

[Grenouille]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
So, what do you think, Grenouille? Have we answered your question?

Yeah, thanks for the feedback.
I tried again with an earlier savegame, where I`d only conquered part of my enemy`s territory, and managed to prevent economic collapse.

[Arrian]

Code of Laws is important.
Currency is important.
Commerce-generating tiles are important (Cottages are the most obvious, but also various special tiles like gold/silver mines, and coastal tiles - especially if you can nab the Colossus).

Generally, it's about getting your own empire running smoothly before you bite off a chunk of someone else (unless you plan to mostly raze).

Re: harbors... the health bonus can be quite significant if you have multiple seafood resources. But they really shine once you have some foreign trade routes.

-Arrian

[Xuenay]

Originally posted by Grenouille
I think it`s a good thing to have expansion limited, but it shouldn`t mean that the game becomes unplayable when you do this mistake of overexpanding. Instead, it should punish the player, but give him the opportunity to get out of the situation, i.e. by a revolt in the economical collapsing cities, a civil war, the loss of the conquered territory, etc..

Note, though, that you didn't *immeaditly* fall into zero science and an entirely ruined economy - if that had happened, then I'd agree with you. But when you started taking over the enemy cities you should have noticed your gradually decreasing income and reacted to it then, either by taking steps to research economy techs or halting your invasion. The game *did* provide you an advance warning, and you did have an opportunity to get out of the situation. Not to mention that had you been a little more developed, you'd *still* have a chance to remedy the situation by building those courthouses and the Forbidden Palace.

Taking over another player doesn't automatically render the game unplayable, but it can do that if you ignore all the warning signs to your economy. But that's hardly bad design, since an enemy invasion can also render your game unplayable if you ignore all the warning signs about their build-up and aggressiveness.