where does all her culture come from ?

[apingaut]

I "liberarted" Moscow a few turns ago (they had lots of oil oops I mean were supporting terrorists and had swordmen of mass destruction) as you can see. Then after the resistance ended ( I mean I appeased all the terrorists) I expected my cultural borders around Moscow to grow.
Didnt happen. Then I used a great artist there. Still nothing.
Where does all the Russian culture in the West of Moscow come from ? As you can see there is no Russian city close by ?!
So far this has not happened to me after capturing a city .... I must be missing something very obvious.

Thanks

[Solver]

The culture is from Yaroslavl, and maybe there's another city under that Maceman-guarded Copper. Anyhow, I guess Yaroslavl is a powerful city with a couple of Wonders in it.

[apingaut]

Thanks but I dont think so ... look at Moscows cultural value compared to other cities ....

(and no there isnt even a city south of the copper)

I dont like immediately screaming "bug" when I dont understand something but what is it then ?

[Solver]

Are you playing on Quick? If so, then Yaroslavl's culture could easily be enough for that. Then again, the first screenshot actually looks like Epic to me.

Mouse over those westmost Russian-culture tiles and check the culture percentage, where it says x% Russian. I wonder how many % do they have there?

[apingaut]

Playing on Epic .. the squares to the left of Moscow are 80%+ Russian, so it is not even close !

Wouldnt Yaroslavl appear in that second screenshot if it had a high cultural value ?

Thanks for the fast replies because not understanding whats going on kind of makes playing on pointless.

[Solver]

A city at "Refined" culture level could push it that far. That means, on Epic, 750 culture or more. Since the squares there are 80%, I would expect Yaroslavl to be a city with around 2000 culture, still having it below the second screen threshold. I think that's the situation.

[apingaut]

I dont get it ... Moscow has 12114 now (look at the 2nd screenshot !) , that is 5 TIMES as much as the maximum level Yaroslavl could have (else it would be in that screenshot).

How then can Yaroslavl which is much farther away and must have less culture have so much more influence on the tiles ?

I am willing to send the save-game to anyone who wants to take a look ....

I am betting more and more on a bug.

[Solver]

How did you get Moscow to that much culture? An Artist is, IIRC, 6500 on Epic, and where did you get the other culture? If you only have the city for some time, it couldn't be as high.

12114 is culture in Moscow under your control, right?

[apingaut]

Yes, in Moscow under my control. It revolts from time to time but its under my control for most of it.

I got it that high by vasting another artist (= 2 in total).

[Blake]

Well it's very complicated but basically culture builds up on tiles, the "built up" culture only counts if it's in range of a city of that civ though - so if you capture or raze the nearby cities your new culture will be able to overpower it.

[Solver]

It's actually not that simple, Blake. But yes, indeed, Moscow being the most high-culture city in the world, it should easily overpower those tiles. 1-st and 2-nd ring for Moscow, 5-th or 6-th for Yaroslavl...

[apingaut]

Blake, I am aware of all of that. Just look at the screenshots again.
Normally the higher the culture of a city and the nearer the city to a tile, the higher the influence.
In the above case, Moscow is nearer to the tiles in question, and must have (if my reasoning isnt flawed) a higher culture than any of the Russian cities.

So why on earth can the squares left of Moscow (directly left of !) be 80%+ Russian ?

[JackRudd]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the first screenshot is before the second artist was added, the second screenshot is after it.

[carlisimo]

Doesn't the territory around Moscow have all the culture that Moscow spread out through the centuries? Only Moscow ITSELF loses that when it gets conquered. The "suburbs' remain Muscovite.

[Blake]

I said it was COMPLICATED. It's not simple. It's COMPLICATED.

Culture builds up on tiles, so if Moscow had a lot of russian culture, say 20,000 - it's as if there is still a 20,000 culture russian city influencing those tiles. But it's an odd kind of "virtual culture influence", it only works if the tile is within the radius of a REAL city.

Nothing gets rid of the built up culture on tiles, not razing the city, nothing. The only way is to slowly build up culture of your own to overpower it, or raze/capture the nearby cities to remove the "real" influence.

It's a very complicated thing and I can't remember where the thread explaining it is. But in any case it's not a bug, it's just rather unintuitive.