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**Bhruic** · December 25, 2005, 01:08

Er, you should know, if you don't, that reloading will always produce the same results, unless you specifically do something else that'll cause the random number generator to kick in.

Ie, if you reload and make the same attacks, the results will be identical. If you want different results, make an attack somewhere else first, pop a goody hut, wait a turn, etc.

Bh

**Jaybe** · December 25, 2005, 01:21

We will all probably be RE-learning how combat works for awhile, now that 1.52 has changed the combat system (i.e., a damaged unit now does the same damage per round as a full-strength unit).

**uberloz** · December 25, 2005, 02:05

Originally posted by Bhruic
Er, you should know, if you don't, that reloading will always produce the same results, unless you specifically do something else that'll cause the random number generator to kick in.

Bh

That explains some of the lack of randomness.

But it doesn't explain the ai getting units like these in the first place.

I just had a damaged ai modern armor attack one of my level 12 cities and no matter what unit it faced it triumphed!

It was a level 1 modern armor at 24.6 strength and it was attacking across a river against, first, a level 3 modern armor of mine ( it killed me )!

I evacuated All modern armor out of the city and did a reboot and it killed a level 4 gunship!

I evacuated all gunships out of the city and it killed a level 3 mech infantry that had been dug in longer than the 5 turns necessary to have the +25% bonus, plus it had the culture bonus and it was upgraded to +25% city defense!

These were all full strength units that hadn't moved for well over 10 turns. Any human commander would never make the choice to attack under these conditions. But somehow the ai just decides it will create an unkillable 'assassin' unit, or 'defender' unit

There was nothing strategic about the ai attack, it just decided that it was going to kill a unit in that city, and then did it! One lone, heavily damaged armor attacking across a river against 11 modern armor 9 gunship and 14 dug in mech infantry and somehow it wins?

I can't be the only person seeing this behaviour, can I?

Anyway, it's just disappointing that this is how combat works now. These 'unkillable units' didn't exist ( as far as I know ) prior to this latest patch.

I'm playing on prince level so I expect a some level of ai bonus's, but to just make some objectives unattainable or some units 'superheroes' is pretty weird.

**xxFlukexx** · December 25, 2005, 02:30

Happens to me all the time.

But it's not an unkillable unit or anything like that. It's just getting really, really lucky. Lots of programs use RNGs that are trash and spit out statistically anomalies like they are going out of style.

**Urban Ranger** · December 25, 2005, 10:40

Originally posted by xxFlukexx
Lots of programs use RNGs that are trash and spit out statistically anomalies like they are going out of style.

Actually runs are statistically common. Flip a coin and record the results. How often do you see a run of heads or tails and how long are they?

**Urban Ranger** · December 25, 2005, 11:05

Re: Against all odds!

Originally posted by uberloz
I used 3 full strength ( 24 points ) 1st level gunships against 1 damaged ( 9.6 points) 1st level ai gunship and had 1 gunship forced to flank out and the other 2 killed.

You have 3 strength 8 unit attacking a strength 9.6 unit. It has a 20% advantage over any one of your units. If you look at the combat system thread, a 20% advantage is big.

Originally posted by uberloz
8 full strength modern armor attacking 2 half strength mechanized infantry guarding a city, the city was size 22.

Mech Inf has strength 32. Your armour has strength 40. The mech inf units are probably fortified, giving them a 25% bonus. The city probably has some huge cultural defense, say 80%. That gives the units a whopping 115% bonus, making them 68.8. I can see your armour getting completely hosed.

You said they were 1/2 strength, but they may have promotions that make them strong, such as city garrison or ambush.

Originally posted by uberloz
4 3rd level subs of mine against one damaged ( 16.7 )1st level destroyer and 2 of my subs flanked out and the other 2 were destroyed. At least this encounter produces some damage to the enemy destroyer but I can never get it to go below 9.6, in over a dozen reloads.

3rd level don't mean a thing. What are their promotions?

This looks like a more likely candidate, but the details are missing.

**Xerxes712** · December 25, 2005, 14:14

Er, you should know, if you don't, that reloading will always produce the same results, unless you specifically do something else that'll cause the random number generator to kick in.

Ie, if you reload and make the same attacks, the results will be identical. If you want different results, make an attack somewhere else first, pop a goody hut, wait a turn, etc.

Spank me if I'm wrong, I read there is a change to that; you are correct but....

The new patch has an option to turn on/of the random seed gernerator ability if you reload a savegame now.

That way you do not have to 'adjust' the odds to get a different result.

But of course, none of us would never admit that our super unit just got wasted by a lucky hit by a lowly inferior unit..

**Aro** · December 25, 2005, 14:30

Originally posted by Xerxes712

The new patch has an option to turn on/of the random seed gernerator ability if you reload a savegame now.

Really? I never heard about that...

Btw, I didn't find it.

**Xerxes712** · December 25, 2005, 15:38

Yeh, I read it somewhere on Civfanatics site, undocumented features. I cannot find it now. The site's search engine is terrible.

Maybe it was not true. If it was, there would be a setting to adjust in the ini file I assume.

**Blake** · December 25, 2005, 16:10

I believe it's an option for custom games.

**player1** · December 25, 2005, 16:20

As blake said...
Custom option, 1.52 patch only.

**Aro** · December 25, 2005, 16:49

Originally posted by Blake
I believe it's an option for custom games.

Thanks Xerxes and Blake, it's there.

**uberloz** · December 26, 2005, 05:51

Re: Re: Against all odds!

Originally posted by Urban Ranger You have 3 strength 8 unit attacking a strength 9.6 unit. It has a 20% advantage over any one of your units. If you look at the combat system thread, a 20% advantage is big.

No, I had 3 full strength gunships which are strength 24 each vs 1 damaged gunship at 9.6 strength.

The combat should produce a victory for me even if 2 of my gunships die.

Originally posted by Urban Ranger Mech Inf has strength 32. Your armour has strength 40. The mech inf units are probably fortified, giving them a 25% bonus. The city probably has some huge cultural defense, say 80%. That gives the units a whopping 115% bonus, making them 68.8. I can see your armour getting completely hosed.

You said they were 1/2 strength, but they may have promotions that make them strong, such as city garrison or ambush

It shouldn't matter what promotions they had, they were decimated and outnumbered 4 to 1. My post is dealing with the unlikelyhood of victory under those conditions. 'Against all odds'

Originally posted by Urban Ranger 3rd level don't mean a thing. What are their promotions?

I promise you that the promotions for the subs weren't 'underwater basket weaving' or 'major vulnerability to enemy attack' other than that it really shouldn't matter what the promotions were in this case, as the enemy destroyer was a heavily damaged level 1.

My point is that some ai units exist 'outside' the laws of good taste.

**Aro** · December 26, 2005, 08:25

uberloz, we live in a statistic universe. Everything is possible... Even if not likely.
And that includes Civ IV.

Announcement

Against all odds!

Against all odds!

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