Question about city specialization.

[mgdpublic]

I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I find city specialization quite hard. I know how to do it in theory, but the varied terrain makes the application quite hard. I play on "Balanced" maps - is that the problem? The other thing is that it's not like I don't have the time/resources to build almost all buildings in every city though the order is certainly different. Of course wonders make a big difference, but trying to specialize typically limits something that is also critical - like growth. Any ideas, I read the thread on specialization but I still feel I'm missing something.

[djpsychonaut]

Firstly, playing on a Balanced map shouldn't have any effect on specializing your cities. Balanced maps mean that important strategic resources are balanced amongst all civs on the map. That means that everyone has access to at least one Iron, one Bronze, etc.

When you specialize your cities, it doesn't mean that you should be producing absolutely no gold in your production cities and no hammers in your commerce cities. To some extent they have to stay a LITTLE balanced. Otherwise, how will you be able to build Banks, Grocers, etc in your commerce cities?

The fact that you mention that it's hard to build all buildings in one city is exactly why specializing is the way to go. If you do try to build all buildings in one city, then you will never have time to build units. This will make you a prime target for conquest.

Generally what I try to do is have cities near hills specialize in production. The idea is that you shouldn't resist the situation that your city is in. It's in the hills, so use those hills to your advantage by mining a bunch of them and reap the hammers! Geography does not always dictate how a city should specialize, but it's generally best to go with that. Windmills, Watermills, and Workshops allow you to create a little more balance in your cities.

Coastal cities make great commerce centers because they usually have access to trade routes without the need to build roads early on. Also, if you can get the Great Lighthouse, they become commercial powerhouses! You can only build harbors in coastal cities as well, further increasing their profitability.

Another key specialization that has been talked about at great length in various threads is having a few "GP factories." These cities should have access to tremendous food resources so that you can create more specialists in the city. You would also want to target building certain wonders in these cities when possible. (Check out this thread for more about wonders: http://apolyton.net/forums//showthre...hreadid=144218) These specialists will encourage GP points!

[mgdpublic]

Actually I said that I can build every building in every city so I typically don't have to choose where I'm gonna put a market/university/etc.. This leaves only wonders to make a difference I think.

[Cort Haus]

All cities need growth if there is food to support it, so happy & health builds will always be needed, but Commerce cities prioritise either science or gold enhancing builds. Most 'commerce' cities will mostly be science cities, - and any coast or jungle site with a few hammers will do. Science cities prioritise libs & science builds, mixing in growth builds, and mostly ignore hammer & unit builds, unless there's nothing better to do or they're helping out with an emergency catapult. Markets & Grocers may be needed for growth, but they won't give much unless the science rate is low.

As the slider is usually up aound 70-80% a city needs a private income to be a Gold city, as the economy can't usually spare it. Shrine cities are the usual candidates. The Spiral Minaret, Merchant specialists + Gt Merchant super specialists also make gold, as do Priests.

Your top science city should have Oxford Uni, and the top gold city should have Wall Street. These might both be your capital if you bag an early religion. A gold city usually makes science too, as it will often be coastal or cottaged-up. Of course to get the National Wonders you need the pre-requisite Banks & Uni's. Small empires will find their lesser science cities have to get banks too, and barracks cities have to build Unis etc, but the larger the science city, the more effect the gold buildings will have anyway.

Hammer cities obviously prioritise Barracks, Forge and units, mixing in growth builds as needed. Smaller empires will eventually need to slot in lib, uni & bank, but larger ones may not. These cities are ideally inland, with lots of food and mined hills.

The capital usually wants everything, and has generally has the strength to build it. If you only have one academy, it'll probably be in the capital because of the 9g it starts with, and the Bureaucracy civic compounds this. So it'll usually be the main Science City, a unit producer, and a gold source too.

Some players report excellent results from generalising rather than specialising - trying to get each city balanced. The MPC (Multi Purpose City - or is it MRC - Multi Role City?) can reconfigure itself from hills for units & wonders to sea & cottage for commerce, to food for GPP's.

Sometimes the terrain strongly favours balanced cities, but I think it gets harder to build everything the higher up you play.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by mgdpublic
Actually I said that I can build every building in every city so I typically don't have to choose where I'm gonna put a market/university/etc.. This leaves only wonders to make a difference I think.

In that case I'm wondering why I just typed all that ...

[djpsychonaut]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Some players report excellent results from generalising rather than specialising - trying to get each city balanced. The MPC (Multi Purpose City - or is it MRC - Multi Role City?) can reconfigure itself from hills for units & wonders to sea & cottage for commerce, to food for GPP's.

Having balanced cities can be useful as you state above. I usually do like to have a city or two that are solely devoted to maximize gold though. These would of course become science cities as well.

[djpsychonaut]

Originally posted by mgdpublic
Actually I said that I can build every building in every city so I typically don't have to choose where I'm gonna put a market/university/etc.. This leaves only wonders to make a difference I think.

Sorry, I read your post too fast.... The idea is that you don't need to prioritize building every building, esp in your production cities which you'll want to be build units with.

[mgdpublic]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


In that case I'm wondering why I just typed all that ...

No that was really helpful! Thanks all.

[eluciv]

I understand why people specialize, but I never seem to end up going that route. I also never have cities with 500 beaker, either.

My question is whether you initially focus on food in all your cities? Reglardless of city "type", do you try to keep your pop up at the happy limits? I can't really see the short-term advantage of a production city if it's only taking in a few food per turn. It would take forever (relatively) to get it producing. My idea is that I want to maximize pop ASAP and then switch to $$$/hammers. In most cases, I can move at least half my workers to tiles that produce 0-1 food (but lots of hammers and eventual coin).

Along with that, even in cities where I plant lots of cottages, I find myself tending to initially irrigate and work those squares in lieu of cottages just to get the pop up. After a certain point (usually around the time I'm at the first happiness limit), I'll start converting farms to cottages. It's not absolute - I cottage all my flood plains right away, but grass and plains I tend to irrigate the ones that can be and cottage the ones that can't. I work the irrigation until I lose that first unhappy worker and then on to cottages/production and zero growth until more happiness. Does this strat make any sense, or do you just go nuts on the cottages/prod from the get-go in lieu of (even slightly) quicker growth?

[jerry247]

I tend to set myself up for 20 tiles of workers, so 40 food. Then whatever is left goes to specialization. Hills are production and I'll try to leave the forests for mills. If I have insane food, I go for specialists. Regular food tends to get cottages. I don't go too crazy w/ cottages unless I'm playing a financial civ. I'm still trying to work out a system. I've never got 500 beakers either

[eluciv]

Well....cottages - even though they suggest income, are really the basis of your research. Unless you have lots of luxury items, I know of no other way to stay afloat!

I'm kind of torn, because the earlier you build cottages, the sooner your income/science goes up (provided you're working them). I'm too lazy (or is that dumb) to find the point at which the tradeoff between keeping max happy population is worse than keeping workers on all cottages. I'd assume that unless you are cottaging tiles with more than 2 food, your growth is going to be pretty slow after 3 or 4 citizens. Getting 6 or 7 citizens ASAP by working high food and then moving as many as possible to cottages would seem to delay income, but once the move is made, you're cruising. I try to have several workers around to build farms right away and then change them over to cottages at each point where the city can accept more happy citizens.

The way this relates to the topic is that unless I keep a city on all food, I never want to add specialists until much later - like when most important buildings are already made and production is "good enough" and I can sacrifice that pop point (or two). I just seems to me that unless you are employing the civic that gives each specialist +3 science (can't remember which one that is at the moment), it's more worth it to work tiles. That's unless you use specialists to curb pop or have only crappy city terrain left to work - probably Angkor Wat should be mentioned as well. I have trouble pulling specialists unless they're in my ultra food city(s).