Civ4... well many stuff I'm missing here...

[TheCabal]

Hello guys,

well played my first civ4-session. I'll make it short:

- No nuclear submarines?? (with slots for ICBMs)
- Some Cruise-missle-likes are missing...
- Hmmm no new future-like-technology/units... they could be more creativ (Call to Power 2.....)
- The different era's of the human are way too fast. Is it possible to reduce this speed? (The slowest ingame speed settings is far to slow)
- Where to make votings regarding stuff like "No ICBMs"/"Ok on ICBMs use" and stuff?
- The Spy could have more options like.... for example you want to destroy a wonder like SDI-Defense.. you select it, pay for it and so on. Spies could really need more options WHAT to sabotage in categories like WONDER, BUILDINGS, STEAL CASH, BIO TOXIC ATTACK, CREATING A RESISTANCE FORCE FOR WHICH YOU HAVE TO PAY and so on....
- Bombardments... well you only can injure every unit to 50% and no more....
- No stealth fighter
- No actions for taking out patroling jets...

Or what about a unit like the diplomat in Call To Power 2??

Well, I think i'll nstall my CTP2 back because the amount of actions/methods/strategy are more what I want.

Civ4 is great and earns an A+ but sometimes it makes me feel like the game's held to simple...

What are your opinions?

Greetings,
Cab

[xxFlukexx]

-Nope, ICBMs have infinite range
-I miss Cruise missiles too...
-Nah, never been many future tech units in CIv, CtP is a completely different game. I wish they would add in future stuff too.
-New slower speed code named 'marathon' in todays patch
-Someone must build the U.N., they the secretary general can vote for propositions, no ICBMs is one of the proposals. AIs love passing that one.
-True spies aren't that useful and come very late. I don't think that we really need lots of spy units running around doing stuff every turn, but 1-2 morem issions for them would be nice.
-Soooo? 50% cap is good, a unit 50% dead can be killed by pretty much anything
-There's a Jet fighter. You don't really need a stealth fighter, fighters suck bombarding cities. Having a stealth fighter unit with no counters is not a good idea, would upset game balance.
-Yeah, thats annoying, you have to send your jets on a bombing run on the tile that the patrolling jets are. I think of it as you can't really target patrolling fighters because they are well patrolling for you so you can't suprise them.

Sure, go ahead for CtP2 if that's what you like. Personally I liked CtP1 at first but then after a bit of playing I saw all the huge flaws and disliked it after that. Play whatever you like best, but I don't think a game is better just because it has more units or more options.

[MasterDave]

They have to leave some units out so they have something to put in the expansion packs they are going to be selling to us next Christmas.

For now they will call these omissions "streamlining" or "optimizations".

CTP2 was a great game system and would have been a classic if not for the extremely weak and passive AI. I tried ages of man in the desperate last months of waiting for Civ4, but after several games, it just got sorta dull, especially after the dark age crisis. The Monty Python elements in the movies (like Plague) also got old fast.

[Enigma_Nova]

One of the most popular games around is played with only 32 units, of only 6 different types.

[JackRudd]

Diplomacy is an even more extreme example than chess. There are never more than 34 units on the board, and they are of only two different types.

[Enigma_Nova]

Isn't 32 less than 34?

[GodSpawn]

But Diplomacy is indeed a more extreme example, since it only has two different types of unit.

Go, of course, only has a single type - just lots of it.

The point is - of course - that a game with relatively few rules and types can nevertheless require a highly complex strategy. "More" isn't always "better".

[TheCabal]

Hi guys!

"They have to leave some units out so they have something to put in the expansion packs they are going to be selling to us next Christmas."

That's the way every designer is thinking today


""More" isn't always "better"."

Well if that's how you think you would be ok with Tetris I think. The todays games are being kept too THIN. Especially in games like Civilization they could add many stuff especially the stuff of games like CTP, AC which should be treated as standard. It's real fun to have many options for units, diplomacy and so on. It makes you more thinking and behave like a president. The more options you have, the bigger the game, the bigger the fun. You discover always new ways, combining two or more different strategies to achieve what you want.




For example:

Montezuma created his damn SDI-Defensis before I finished building my first ICBM. It would be fun to send some spies with submarines to locate the city and to destroy the SDI-Project (well it should be hard and be only done by experienced spies (the Alpha Centauri Spies were great) while you send out some nuclear submarines armed with ICBMs to position them around their isle.... what you only can do is to stop a city from producing and get some plans of the nation. Well... top notch

Why nobody makes a complete game containing everything from different games in this case Alpha Centauri, CTPI+II? Games shouldn't be made only for people who want a fast easy and quick game. This just sucks...

Well I think something like a (Secret War) isn't possible. In CTP you could do some pirating on animated business-routes with submarines, you could build many units.... for example this bureaucrat who builds some money-sucking offices in enemy cities which you only could close by lawyers... damn all these great ideas! Is a this kind of war under piece possible in Civ4?

Which Civilization and/or Civilization-like game would you recommend? (no oldies plz ) Would be nice to hear which game you think would fill my needs.

Greetings,
Cab

[Bill3000]

You could always mod Civ4.

[dacole]

somewhat agreed

Call to power just wasn't very good at all really for many many reasons. I do agree however that some of the things in AC should have been kept in Civ IV. I don't buy that the unit design scared people off..it's not that complicated! I also think spies should have more missions, but the idea behind this was to simplify and make it so it didn't go the way of sim games and become a niche product...