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**Blake** · December 20, 2005, 06:32

Yeah... Commerce is pretty important. Tho in a few games I've lucked out with enough plantation resources for a quick tech to calander to pay big commerce dividends.

One strategy that is borderline overpowered is going with hardcore cottage cheese (and fishing villages and stuff), beelining Communism (via either Chemistry or Astronomy) and building the Kremlin. Proceed to get Suffrage and rushbuy everything your heart desires. This way you get both the rapid early research and mid-late game production power.

**Velociryx** · December 20, 2005, 06:45

Glad to hear it, Dactyl! GO YOU!

And yes...any time you find something in your Empire not running the way it should be....that's the voice of your Empire talking to you....it's telling you just exactly what it needs in order to thrive. All ya gotta do at that point is listen, and act on its needs.

-=Vel=-
(BTW, I still focus on production and food first, for each new city, but just as soon as I get farms enough to feed pop up to the happiness limit, and enough production to be viable, cottages start appearing en masse....and Catherine ROCKS....if your game-style is similar to my own, you'll be hard pressed to find one you like better!)

**deluXE** · December 20, 2005, 07:07

Although I'm still playing on Noble level, I found too that cottages are crucial in the development of an empire.

I've struggled for some time on Noble, but as soon as I started focusing more on commerce in order to boost research and money influx, my civilisation gained more and more power and stability.
That's why I usually tend to play Financial leaders.

**Dactyl** · December 20, 2005, 08:32

Vel,

Judging by your comments here and your game on the AU forum, I generally have the same playing style as you. I like to build and I don't like to go to war except to get resources or just more territory to develop. For a while, I tried what I'd call gimmick starts, beelining for CS via the Oracle, or going hard for the Pyramids, but I've abandoned those approaches, though I'm flexible. If I find that my capitals is amid lots and lots of trees, I'll often chop to the Pyramids. That gives me those engineer GP's, which I like and don't otherwise tend to get.

I go for writing as quickly as possible and build a library in my capital, after which I create two science specialists and go for that academy. Research wise, I then fill in anything elementary that I've missed like Masonry and Fishing. After that I go straight for Literature and build the Great Library. I never have any trouble getting it.

**Velociryx** · December 20, 2005, 09:17

Yep...very similar styles then. I seldom build any ancient era wonders (Parthenon is nice, but not really a priority, Pyramids if there's stone in the vicinity, or if I'm just loaded to the gills with forests, but otherwise, I'll pass on that too), and just stay focused on the fundamentals.

Once I've got what I want from the ancient tree, my next stop is Music, with the Great Library on tap for completion while researching toward it. I seldom miss getting the great artist for being first to music, and will hold him for later use (either offensively, in a two front war, or defensively, if faced with a large, well developed civ, to counter culture madness).

-=Vel=-

**Odin** · December 20, 2005, 19:36

I have the same problem as well, I'm not used to the new tile improvements yet, so end up falling behind in tech from not enogh towns.

BTW, what are the best tiles to put cottages on? Floodplain, plains, or grassland?

**cal_01** · December 20, 2005, 20:13

I'm really starting to think that Agriculture/Animal Husbandry to Writing is far worse than Wheel/Pottery.

Pottery gives you cottages and granaries. Animal Husbandry reveals Horses and Pastures, both of which are situational.

**Velociryx** · December 20, 2005, 20:53

Odin, you'll prolly get a LOT of different answers about that. Me personally, I prefer to put them on tiles where I'll at least generate enough food to "pay for" the population point working the tile...that way, the coin I generate is gravy....that said, my first choice for cottages is a flood plain (which nets me 1 excess food + the coin). Second choice is grassland, since it generates enough food to feed the pop point in question, and still give me coin. This, of course, depends on the presence of some type of food special in the city radius. If there are no food specials in the radius for the city in question, then farming those floodplains tiles becomes relatively more important to generate a surpluss cache of food to feed miners and such.

Re: Agriculture/Husbandary....I'm not as convinced. In the very early game (first 40-odd turns), food is of the utmost importance, and being able to farm or...."pasturize?"

those critters is hugely important to early growth.

I tend to regard cottages as a necessity, yes, but only after the basic needs of the empire are addressed (feeding everyone). Because I make for Bronzeworking very early, mining is a given, so I'm of the mindset that a slight delay in cottages/grainaries is okay, but your mileage will, no doubt, vary.

-=Vel=-

**cal_01** · December 21, 2005, 03:24

Originally posted by Velociryx
Odin, you'll prolly get a LOT of different answers about that. Me personally, I prefer to put them on tiles where I'll at least generate enough food to "pay for" the population point working the tile...that way, the coin I generate is gravy....that said, my first choice for cottages is a flood plain (which nets me 1 excess food + the coin). Second choice is grassland, since it generates enough food to feed the pop point in question, and still give me coin. This, of course, depends on the presence of some type of food special in the city radius. If there are no food specials in the radius for the city in question, then farming those floodplains tiles becomes relatively more important to generate a surpluss cache of food to feed miners and such.

Re: Agriculture/Husbandary....I'm not as convinced. In the very early game (first 40-odd turns), food is of the utmost importance, and being able to farm or...."pasturize?"

those critters is hugely important to early growth.

I tend to regard cottages as a necessity, yes, but only after the basic needs of the empire are addressed (feeding everyone). Because I make for Bronzeworking very early, mining is a given, so I'm of the mindset that a slight delay in cottages/grainaries is okay, but your mileage will, no doubt, vary.

-=Vel=-

That's true. However, since your workers would be chopping and the cities would be working (theoretically) either forested grassland or mines to pump out settlers, I don't think there's much time to actually lay down some farms.

OTOH, there is a bit of time to put down a Granary, so..

Then again, pasturizing (

), if possible, is highly beneficial, especially if you land right next to a cow, sheep, or pig. Maybe Horses too, but they don't give you food if you're producing a non-worker/settler. Though, they do give production...

**fed1943** · December 21, 2005, 05:38

I do agree with Velociryx:food first.So,cottages on floodplains is a strong choise.
But I don´t like forest´chop,I mean I just think to chop the ones I will do it anyway later for land devlopment;there is still left the question of timing:do you think,as a rule of thumb of course,choping must be before or after food devlopment and before or after cottages?
(I am unsure if it correct to put these questions here;if not,please forgive me and tell me how to do).
Best regards,

**Dactyl** · December 21, 2005, 06:16

I've been playing of late as Catherine and my preferred start is to build a worker and then a settler. I always like to leave three forest tiles in the "fat cross" of the my productive cities. (Those are the cities I build early on when I have more choice on location.) If there are excess forest tiles either in the "fat cross" or out of it, I'll chop a couple to get that first settler out. I then build a farm and, if there's a hill, I build a mine. After that I play it according to the local topography, though I too focus on early food. If there are any other excess forests in the domain of the capital city, I usually chop them to get the Great Library, which I consider the first essential wonder.

**Velociryx** · December 21, 2005, 06:16

Fed, I think it depends on what you're building. Chopping a settler, for example, is way more valuable, in game terms, than chopping a warrior. In fact, I would argue that there's nothing that trumps getting that first settler, or first-second worker out the gate, so I would tend to make chop the priority in those cases. If you just started a warrior build....great time to drop a cottage.

-=Vel=-

**fed1943** · December 21, 2005, 13:46

Thanks,Velociryx.I just won a game on Noble with Cyrus.
I´m going play it again,this time with forest chop,to see the diference.
(BTW,I noticed that changing a civic under determination of the UN doesn´t cause anarchy).
Best regards,

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