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Late-game Specialized City: Wonder/SS pump.

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  • Late-game Specialized City: Wonder/SS pump.

    Something I've been doing is creating a city specifically for pumping out a huge quantity of hammers, it's (only) national wonder being the Ironworks.

    The idea is firstly to run State Property, and secondly you need to be doing some a-conquering.

    The interesting thing is you don't actually plan the Ironworks city from the start - you instead conquer an AI empire during the mid game and pick a city and rebuild it to as the ideal city to house the Ironworks. Your core cities can have whatever national wonders you want and have plenty of cottages, liberating you to build national wonders more freely and terraform with more of a commerce focus.

    What you're looking for is a city on a river, with very few "dead" tiles (desert/mountain), floodplains and forests are good bonuses, as for flatlands vs hills - it matters not for State Property, if you are communist the grasslands, the hills, the forests - they are all equal!
    (In terms of food/hammers, State Property Workshop == Lumbermill+Rail == Mine)

    Take a hypothetical city, with spots for 5 watermills (basically the river runs straight through the city). It's ALL grassland, and has 1 mountain and a rice in radius. So it was a reclaimed Jungle, not the first place you'd expect to make a good hammer powerhouse.

    When you acquire the city it'll probably be half-pillaged and with a bunch of farms because AI's like them. Bring a worker gang over and build watermills right away but otherwise leave the farms so it grows quickly to the maximum size, once it gets to that size, turn on Avoid Growth and start replacing the farms with workshops until it runs out of food, add more workshops as advances in health frees up more food.

    The city will ultimately be paved entirely with watermills and workshops, other than the farm for the rice.
    It (the hypothetical jungle city) brings in 49 food and thus will grow to size 24.
    The 5 watermills produce 2 hammers each for 10 hammers.
    The 13 workshops produce 3 hammers each for 39.
    Finally it has 5 engineers for another 10 hammers.
    Total hammers: 60

    Add a forge, factory, hydro plant and the Ironworks. It produces a grand total of 180 hammers/turn and will build the SS Engine in just 7 turns - ON EPIC!
    (And that's from a jungle city site with no +hammer resources )

    The use of the Ironworks city is solely to crank out wonders and SS parts. It can have the National Epic because it'll be pumping out serious Great Engineer points (and other points from late game wonders), or Wall Street if it happens to be holy, otherwise a lonely Ironworks is okay. Since most the time it WONT be building units, it shouldn't have Heroic Epic, Red Cross or Westpoint.

    I suggest building Heroic Epic and Westpoint in one city (which should also be optimized for hammers), and then build Red Cross in any old city, as long as it can build units at a respectable rate. Since a lot of units don't benefit from medic it's kind of a waste to have Red Cross in your best unit pump.

  • #2
    Mills and workshops are strong in those circumstances, but weak early on. In your State Property games, do you build then earlier and get what you can, or do wait till State Property then spam them like crazy?

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    • #3
      I've yet to bring myself to use State Property. Like any good American, I automatically assume that it sucks.

      What are the full bonuses again?

      +1 food for workshops
      something for watermills
      windmills?
      No distance-from-capital costs

      -Arrian
      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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      • #4
        Wouldn't it be able to have 9 watermills?

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        • #5
          I don't think so; for some reason I can't seem to place watermills opposite each other. So you'd have one on the opposite bank of the river from the city, and one each in each of the other 4 squares of your city radius the river passes by.
          Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

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          • #6
            Yep, if you build a watermill on a tile, the tile directly opposite will not be able to have one.

            -Arrian
            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

            Comment


            • #7
              For ultimate efficiency, you should build the Iron Works in your capital to take advantage of the Bureaucracy +50% production.

              You also likely built some wonders in your captial under Bureaucracy, so those get doubled with the National Epic too.

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              • #8
                Yeah, but if you have the Ironworks + National Epic, you cannot have Oxford University... which I'd like to have. Typically I have the National Epic + Oxford, and I put the Ironworks somewhere else.

                -Arrian
                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Building some specialists cities for hammer production is of course a good idea once you start building SS parts.

                  But why conquer a city for it?

                  Take your capital! It will already be big enough, it will have 50% bonus hammers if you run Bureaucracy, and it will have good terrain so you can easily build a lot of wattermills, mines and workshops. And it will probably have a lot of superspecialists, adding more hammers.

                  Because of superspecialists I once had a capital city with 100 raw hammers. Forge, Factory, Hydro Plant, Ironworks, bureaucracy and aluminium gave me 400 production total. That's a fast spaceship.

                  In fact, why not convert 3 of 4 of your biggest cities to hammer powerhouses. You can do it with any city, since any terrain can produce hammers

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DaveMcW
                    For ultimate efficiency, you should build the Iron Works in your capital to take advantage of the Bureaucracy +50% production.

                    You also likely built some wonders in your captial under Bureaucracy, so those get doubled with the National Epic too.
                    That doesn't really work if you are using your capital as a commerce pump...
                    You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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                    • #11
                      If you're seriously going for a SS victory then you have to say goodbye to commerce anyway.

                      Beeline for The Internet and build it. After that forget about science. Don't completely stop it, but you can relax it a lot. By turning some of your cities into hammer powerhouses for example.

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                      • #12
                        Hey, I wouldn't know. Only games that ended by SS were OCC games, all the others I won by Conquest or domination before Maces arrived (Tiny maps/pangaea/Great Plains).

                        I was just pointing out that Bureacracy only applies to the capital. If the capital is one of the commerce pumps, then the IW is kind of a waste in it. National Epic, OTOH, I can see the point of.
                        You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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                        • #13
                          I suppose you could move your capital though, as the Palace is only 160 shields...
                          You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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                          • #14
                            Indeed. The capital actually ceases to matter if/when you run State Property.

                            This is because State Property ELIMINATES all distance upkeep, this makes the Capital, Forbidden Palace and Versailles all useless (atleast so far as upkeep reduction goes, the commerce/culture benefits remains).

                            Okay regarding conquering vs giving one of your core cities a makeover:
                            Firstly, while your capital will be good, you'll probably want to build a national wonder in it much earlier. National Epic, Globe Theatre, Oxfords, Wallstreet, Heroic Epic, these are all strong possibilities.
                            Secondly, if you're NOT doing any conquering, you probably don't have the empire size to justify State Property, as such this strategy isn't quite as applicable. Ofcourse State Property isn't essential unless you want to turn a less than "ideal" spot into a hammer-monster, a city with a lot of forest/hill and some food specials makes a fine hammer-monster, but you can't always rely on getting such a city.

                            If you're wondering how significant the food bonus from SP can be, in the example I made in the first post, it's providing a total of +18 food to the city, essentially "upgrading" the city site by about 3-5 nice food/hammer specials.

                            Getting back to the reason to use a conquered city.
                            Usually I'll only have one city with real good hammer potential which is also devoted to hammers (this is partyl because I'm a Suffrage/rushbuy whore). This city will already have Heroic Epic, and IMO it's not a good idea to combine Heroic Epic and Ironworks, since Ironworks is one of the only "special" ways to accelerate SS parts, while Heroic Epic only accelerates units.

                            Now as for Bureaucracy... it works in a funny way.

                            When added to hammers it acts like another +50% modifier, for example bringing +200% to +250%. It works for Specialist hammers.

                            It also adds 50% to commerce, that's BEFORE it gets split into Science and Gold. Firstly this means it acts as a multiplicative bonus unlike the hammer additive bonus, thusly it's much more powerful on raw commerce. However it doesn't work for specialist or shrine income.

                            Really, Bureaucracy is the bees knees in the early game when it increases Capital research by 50% and the hammers also by 50% (due to no other facilities), but for the endgame Ironworks city it only increases the multiplier from 3.0 to 3.5, only a 16% boost.

                            Conclusion? It's best for the Capital to be a (at least partialy) commerce city, and in the end game Bureaucracy isn't really worth running. I'd rather continue with either Free Speech or Vassalage.

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                            • #15
                              Free Speech is a huge problem solver - namely the problem of expanding conquered city borders. Doubling the rate of expansion allows you to fill in the gaps in a reasonable amount of time (read: before other AIs start attempting to steal turf with Settlers, which often leads to a culture flip and unnecessary hostility). The bonus commerce is nice as well, and in comparison to your late alternatives in this soft category, it's quite strong.

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