Disbanding OUR cities

[Dr. Trespasser]

Disbanding, deleting, mass genocide, evacuation, Whatever you want to call it, I think we should be able to do it to our cities in some form. This is a simulation of civilization through time and throughout history there have been mass exoduses, destructions, evacuations and abandonments of entire cities so this should definately be possible. I hate it when your culture overwhelms some poor AI city they plopped down on some strategic resource at the doorstep of a native city of yours. When your culture takes it over it should no longer be a necessity and thus should be abandoned. Maybe the ability to, or results of, abandoning, mass genocide or whatever should be controlled by a civic. I dont think deleting cities should be a simple thing. There should be a penalty or cost of some kind, maybe linked to civic options, and the severity of the penalty should depend on things such as if you just captured a city and changed your mind afterward or something like that, but however it works, it should be a possible strategic option. What do you all think about this?

[Blake]

A raze option would be nice (for certain definitions of nice), how it should work is during a raze each unit in the city kills 1 population point a turn, until the city is destroyed or the raze cancelled (by the razer of the city being captured).

It would also be nice if cities would spew out partisans and refugees when you're doing unsavory things to them.

[Enigma_Nova]

He means to our own cities, Blake.

[Last Conformist]

If it were to be allowed, it should inflict a happiness penalty on our other cities.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
He means to our own cities, Blake.

And why exactly can't a leader order an army to raze one of their own cities and murder their people? I'm pretty sure some tinpot (and somewhat less tinpot) dictators have done almost exactly that at times... i mean mass genocide of their own population. Though I should have said "Opresser" rather than "capturer".

Some.. less unsavory.. options might be nice, especially for disbanding smaller settlements. Maybe a disband option for size 1&2 cities that creates a worker out of the deal.

Getting back to unsavory razing though. In the case of razing a captured city the partisans could be the original owner, in the case of your own city they could be "barbarian". Refugees could be NPC neutral, and beeline for nearby cities.

Refugees could be interesting. Maybe they could attach to cities, where they act basically as an unhappy citizen (eats, does no work) for a period of time (10 turns?) after a while they'd integrate as normal population, if refugees were to be part of disbanding and population relocation in general there would therefore be a tradeoff involved - you could rearrange your pop between cities, but the transition would be painful with the pseudo-unhappy citizens.

Linked to civics...
Disband: Always possible, but only size 1&2 cities, creates a worker.
Raze (destroys most population, some escape): Requires Despotism.
Mass relocation (converts population "peacefully" to refugees), requires Police State.

Disbanding probably shouldn't be penalty free. Maybe an empire-wide unhappy penalty for 10 turns.
Is our city next?!

[Enigma_Nova]

There is no despotism. Wrong game.

[Dr. Trespasser]

The americans just plopped a city on top of an iron deposit three squares away from one of my cities last night. I then absorbed it an had another useless city. bla

[Adagio]

Here's my idea about how it could work (stealing a bit from Blake ):

Disband: Turns a size 1 or 2 city into a worker, takes x turns (where x is city size)

Raze: Only possible to conquered cities. For each turn 1 population is killed (2 if more than five units inside city). The previous owner of this city will hate you much more, and friends of this civ gets -1 in relationship to you). During this time, the city is in revolt, so you might risk the city to turn back to the previous owner

Relocation: Can be done to all cities. Each turn 1 population is transfered to a random city. Which civ this population goes to is randomly picked between the origin of the population in the city, based on how large that group is, example:
This German city is: 50% German, 40% Russia, 10% Spain
Each turn there's 50% chance the population point goes to a random German city, 40% chance it goes across the borders to Russia, and 10% it goes to Spain. This gives a for all your cities for 20 turns if the city is larger than size 7

[Dr. Trespasser]

The idea about killing an ememies population should definately be possible but I dont think your allies should like you more for it. Unless they absolutley hate the enemy, I dont think any civilized nation would normally enjoy hearing that our army masecured an enemy city unless they had previously done the same or nuked you or something.

[Adagio]

I agree, there should be a penality in relationship with all civs that has one of the "modern civics" at the time of the doing, and make it impossible to do it (raze cities) when you have such civic yourself

[Bill3000]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
There is no despotism. Wrong game.

Incorrect, that's the default government civic.

Check the Civ4 - Creation forum. I believe there a mod that does this already.

Edit: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=143962

[rjwoer]

I remember seeing (a month ago, or so) someone working on a modification for abandoning a 1st person city. I will try to track down the thread. The guy/gal had put together the art for the button and was refining the python, I think. Anyone else know the thread I'm talking about? (I think it's different from the above thread, although I suppose that works just as well )

[djpsychonaut]

I don't think there should be a happiness penalty. As far as I know, the Abandon City option has always been available in prior Civs (and derivatives such as Alpha Centauri). There is a long standing precendent to be able to do this, it's not a new concept.

[Bill3000]

Yes, but last time I checked, destroying an entire city or even village will make people unhappy.