Unpredictable Diplomacy

[X_Necro_X]

I'm finding myself more and more confused by the diplomacatic relations between myself and the NPCs. I've had a few complaints/concerns :

1. I end up getting asked into wars a lot by allies. About 3 turns later, they make peace and I'm left in a pro-longed 1 on 1 war.

2. Many games I find myself suddenly being turned on by my closest allies. Often times(especially in FFA style 2v2v2/1v1v1), it is usually my closest ally who declares war on me rather then the other player who is pissed at both of us. In one game, which was a 5 players remaining game, the person I signed a defensive pact with suddenly declared war on me yet our relations were PLEASED. Can someone please explain possible reasons for this? Is there little quirks yet undiscovered? I know one possibility could have been I moved a spy near her main capital but I didn't think they could see spies.

[Proteus_MST]

1. Yeah, that´s often the case, therefore think about it if you really want to join a war or if you rather want to risk a -1 penalty on your relationship with the leader who asked

2. Maybe you choose the wrong people to be your allies. There are some AI leaders who will declare war if they think you are military weak no matter how good your relations are (for example Isabella or Caesar). Solutions: Choose your allies wisely and/or stay military strong enough so that the AI leaders don´t see you as easy prey

[Hauptman]

Also, its possible for those ai nations to be friendly with most of there neighbors, so your relationship could actually not be special in their view...

That and you were militarily weak and/or had a resource they needed.

[fani]

I ve had a spy discovered after trying to sabotage production and still i got just a penalty in my relations...but that was egypt so it depends on the leader...
Montezuma is the worst example...not only he is not that forgiving but he is also inclined to attack you even if your relations are good...I had him next to me in a monarch game where i was going for a space victory and he was "pleased" (i was not very powefull in military though)...as i closed to finishing the final parts he canceled all trade deals and attacked me...i struggled to repell him and (oh bad luck!) in the meantime i had 2 nuclear meltdowns in my core cities ...anyway in the end i managed to finish the spaceship and he got nothing but #^@#$%
In another game i agreed to ally with him against isabella just to not worsen my relation with him...but the decisions depends on the standings of each civ...Montezuma was #2 and isabella last so i joined and didnt even ever see a spanish soldier...isabella got whacked a few turns later by him alone...

The moral of the story is that "allies" are not friends...they are just less likely to be aggressive...and even that may not be true if you are dealing with monty ...the only way to feel safe is military superiority if you are willing to afford it...otherwise its a risk that you decide to take and depends on the game...if the aggressor is on another continent he cant be too much of a threat(hopefully)...anyway in just a few words the one thing you need to not forget ever is the following...

You can only trust yourself!

[Jamski]

An agressive Civ will likely go for you whatever the state of your relationship if it thinks you are weak. So build an army that's at least "average size" - try not to be target number 1.

[X_Necro_X]

Yeah, I've generally begun to think that too. It is good to have and maintain an up-to-date military but it is definately hard to do most victories without taking risks(militaristically). It's just a shame you can't depend on the AI once in a while And oh yeah - Isabella and Montezuma are insane IMHO.

[Son of David]

'Pleased' is one thing, 'Friendly' is another.

Share a religion, convert to theirs if at all possible. Get them friendly with open borders and trade all the resources you can with them. You've made a friend for the rest of the game.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by X_Necro_X
Yeah, I've generally begun to think that too. It is good to have and maintain an up-to-date military but it is definately hard to do most victories without taking risks(militaristically). It's just a shame you can't depend on the AI once in a while And oh yeah - Isabella and Montezuma are insane IMHO.

If you just want to use it to impress the AI it might not even be necessary to keep all/most of your units up to date.
If it´s correct what some people think it´s size that matters to the AI, not technology.
So, if correct, you might impress the AI more with 10 warriors than with 2 modern MBTs

[Quillan]

I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I think the game simply keeps a running total of the "worth" of your army, and that's what it uses for comparison. I think that you're right, in that a lot of weaker units might be considered stronger overall than a very few stronger units. However, unit maintenance costs don't vary with the type of unit. It will cost you the same amount of money to maintain an army of 20 modern armor and 40 mechanised infantry as it would to maintain 60 warriors.

[Axxaer]

Re: Unpredictable Diplomacy

Originally posted by X_Necro_X
IMany games I find myself suddenly being turned on by my closest allies. Often times(especially in FFA style 2v2v2/1v1v1), it is usually my closest ally who declares war on me rather then the other player who is pissed at both of us. In one game, which was a 5 players remaining game, the person I signed a defensive pact with suddenly declared war on me yet our relations were PLEASED. Can someone please explain possible reasons for this? Is there little quirks yet undiscovered? I know one possibility could have been I moved a spy near her main capital but I didn't think they could see spies.

Well, as one of this forum's quotes says:

Originally said by Publilius Syrus
Treat your friend as if he might become an enemy.