[Bug report] gunpowder weapons not ignoring walls

[Strategist83]

If I am not mistaken gunpowder weapons - which are supposed to ignore walls and other fortifications - are bugged.

[Enigma_Nova]

They don't ignore cultural bonuses.

[Shogun Gunner]

what does that mean "cultural bonuses"?

Strategists83 what do you mean bugged? The bonus is still applied to defenders even when a gunpowder unit attacks? I'll try to test that tonight.

[vee4473]

perhaps "cultural bonuses" means the percentage bonus the city has.

I wouldn't even know how to test this.

[Shogun Gunner]

i was going to look at the odds and try to figure it out, but that's a good point actually. I don't think there are two units - one gunpowder and one that isn't - that share the same strength number.

Math gets more complicated. Head hurts.

[vee4473]

this is where I bow out. I just play the game and unless there is a glaring oddity, I put faith in the game to make the correct calculations.

I do love to read about the results of others who like that sort of thing though. They kinda do the work for me.

I can't get into analyzing a game to that extent.

edit: I do enough of that kinda thinking at work to come home to it.

[gilfan]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
i was going to look at the odds and try to figure it out, but that's a good point actually. I don't think there are two units - one gunpowder and one that isn't - that share the same strength number.

Math gets more complicated. Head hurts.

Not at base values, no, but you could take a knight with +20% from combat 2 vs a grenadier... both would be 12.

I don't believe it's really necessary, though. Hold down alt and mouse over the city, and it shows you the breakdown. IIRC, walls would fall under tile defense bonus, which includes city culture and hill bonus as well. Not 100% about that, not something I pay a lot of attention to.

[clarkcd]

You could always put city walls and a castle (which should also be negated by gunpowder units) in a city with less than 100% culture bonus to see if the tile bonus is 100% or the value of the culture bonus.

To make it easy don't put the city on a hill or near a river.

[Strategist83]

It really is not very complicated. All units defending cities gain a massive defense bonus (actually, they get several): Whichever number is greater of the city's cultural value or its walls/castles is taken into account when the city is attacked.

Regardless, I now think I am mistaken and that Enigma is correct. This confuses me as I took great care precisely not to mix the two values up.

I will report back if I find out I was in fact correct in the first place.

[Enigma_Nova]

Yeah, I usually am right when I parrot directly from the manual.

[gilfan]

I checked with the world editor...

A city will get the benefit of EITHER culture OR walls/castles, whichever is higher, and gunpowder units do ignore walls/castles.

The #% under a city will change to reflect this depending on which unit you have selected. Say you have a city that has 40% defense from culture, and has both walls and a castle. If you have a non-gunpowder unit selected, you'll see a 100% under the city's name. If you select a gunpowder unit, the number will change to 40%.

The 25% bonus from hills is added in both cases, so if you alt-mouseover the city, you'll see either 65% or 125% from tile defense.

This also means bombardment from artillery does temporarily remove the benefits of castles/walls.

[Handel]

According to the civilopedia the armor and the cavalry ARE NOT gunpowder. So it is questionable if they ignore the walss/castles or not.

[gilfan]

Cavalry and tanks ignore walls and castles.

[Urban Ranger]

I don't see why gunpowder units ignore fortifications.

I think seige weapons should be given greater seige power. Which prompts the idea of a separate attack strength and a seige strength.

[Badtz Maru]

This is almost the same mechanic as in the earlier games, where cities over a certain size did not benefit from walls at all, although in this one it's their cultural power and not their population that becomes more useful than walls.