Announcement

**Datajack Franit** · December 16, 2005, 07:19

ahh mine, all mine

let's begin:

1. circumnavigating the world gives your naval units a +1 movement bonus - you don't have to physically set a naval unit to do the around the world trip, just trade maps and clear out the blank spots by sending your ships. Voilà.

3. the tile hosting the city is supposed to always give you 2 food and 1 shield- gold may change

4. no, the medic bonus is not cumulative. one for every large stack is enough of a bonus anyway

6. yup- you need to connect those resources to your city AND improve that tile. of course you can just build the city over the strategic resource, if you can afford wasting the food/shield/gold bonus

7. if you connect provide a city producing a wonder some requested raw materials (iron/marble/copper/stone) you get a reduction of the turns needed to produce it, but I'm not sure you get a complete reduction for skipping all those turns without the raw materials

8. in the moment you get those units, west point becomes available

10. beside the cultural influx helping you widening your borders, you get 1 happy face for every 10% of culture in those cities with a theatre; 2 (?) happy faces for every 20% of cultuer in cities with a colosseum

11. do you pillage cities when you need to recovery from wounds?

12. computer makes a list of those cities that are available for commerce, giving a slight priviledge to those belonging to friendly civs. commerce is completely automatic.

14. you need 100 points to produce a settler, which can be 100 food, 100 shields, 60 and 40, 90 and 10, it doesn't matter

16. yes

**Mergle** · December 16, 2005, 07:32

Re: 20 Points of Clarification

Originally posted by Stageon
1. Does circumnavigating the globe first benefit you in any way, or does the computer just point it out for s&g?

+1 to all your ships' movement forever.

2. An aggressive civ gets free Combat I promotions for its melee and gunpowder units. Are those units actually born with 2 experience points, or can you still reach a 'second' promotion with your first 2 experience points acquired therafter? Easy to check I suppose, but for whatever reason I can't remember if it does. It would be good to get a definitive answer here.

NO, it's a free promotion. You start with 0XP, so if eg you do barracks you get to choose another.

3. When a city is founded, does it use the tile it is founded on as its first worked tile, or does it become some kind of standard tile like in previous games? What about if it's built on a special resource tile? (I know you get access to the resource this way, and that the tile cannot be further improved by workers, but do you still net the unimproved yield of the tile?)

You get 2f1h1c from the centre tile, except any of these values will increase to the level of the unimproved tile if that is higher. No irrigation etc. (but city will conduct water for civil service)

6. If you build a city adjacent to a resource tile, do you still need a road on the resource (in addition to the camp/quarry/etc) to access it? I believe you do.

Yes, you do. Or a river. Note that simply being on the coast won't give you a "sea link" to the city.

7. Will the 50% reduction to a Wonder's cost due to having Stone/Marble kick in if the resource is hooked up midway through producing the Wonder? Or is the price fixed when it's started?

It kicks in when it's hooked up - the bonus appies to the hammers in the city, so it has no effect on production already gone, but applies thereafter. Likewise, if the tile is pillaged (or cut off), hammer bonus will be lost and build time will increase, but existing contribution unaffected.

10. Culture and happiness... This might be one of those things that everyone understands but me. Happiness, health, commerce in general, coin, science, production...I have a good handle on how exactly it all works. But how exactly does culture (global rate and city amts) affect happiness? Is it like the old luxury rate, a certain amount makes a certain number of people in each city happy? I know about the border pushing effects, city defense, etc., I'm just confused about the happiness bit.

It doesn't directly. But Colloseums, (I think broadcast towers), and theatres with dye, give happiness bonuses per 10% culture.
[QUOTE]

12. How does the computer choose which trade routes your cities have? Does it take the most profitable? First come first served? Or am I not getting something...

It seems to be the most profitable possible given conditions. I.e. you need to have found the other city, have open borders, a trade network link (roads or sea with astronmy), and not be running mercantalism if it's foreign.

14. When you chop settlers and workers, they'll pop out when you've got enough hammers even though they will have "eaten" less in that amount of time? Seems kinda weird, I thought the purpose of them taking food while they were being built was to simulate the population growth required. Is that the way it works though?

Yes. Food and hammers equivalent for settler/worker production.

15. If I'm Indutrious and I have stone, does this mean a Wonder like The Pyramids is 25% of the base price?

No, it means you get +150% to your base hammer production, which is equivalent to 40% price (i.e. 60% off)

16. How does the Philosophical 100% GP procuction combine with GP points contributed by Wonders, improvements, and specialists? Does it basically set the threshold for producing the next GP to 50% of what it would normally be?

No, it adds an extra 100% (additive with other bonuses eg Parthenon) to the point production. If you have no other bonuses, this is equivalent to 50% cost.

Those are the one's I'm sure of.

**Last Conformist** · December 16, 2005, 07:34

17. Near as I can tell, it's just the movement bonus.

**Shogun Gunner** · December 16, 2005, 07:34

you should have made twenty different threads on this

**Blake** · December 16, 2005, 07:46

2: the Combat1 is absolutely free no strings attached, straight out of the barracks you can pick up promotions like Shock and Medic.

3: The city tile will always produce a minimum of 2-1-1, it will produce more if the base tile is better, for example copper on a plains hill is 0-3-0, a city founded on it will be 2-3-1. Likewise founding on a wines on a river (2 commerce) results in 2-1-2. It is good to found on top of things like Plains Hills, Plains Elephants... anything that gives 2 hammers and doesn't give massive bonuses when improved.

15: Industrious + stone results in a 150% bonus to building pyramids, or 1/2.5. This is equivilant to 40% cost.

17: Fast workers only move faster.

19: Things change in cost but it's all proportional, you just get more time to move your units on epic. There are some minor differences due to rounding, for example building roads:
On epic, roads take 3 turns to build. With a +50% boost to worker speed, that becomes 2 turns, with +100% it's still 2 turns.
On standard roads take 2 turns to build. With a +50% boost it's still 2 turns. With a +100% boost it's 1 turn.
Things like that slightly change the power of certain wonders, civics and techs but it mostly balances out.

**Cort Haus** · December 16, 2005, 08:04

How can you beat Monarch consistently without knowing any of that?

**Stageon** · December 16, 2005, 08:21

Originally posted by Cort Haus
How can you beat Monarch consistently without knowing any of that?

Well Court Haus, it doesn't always take a complete understanding to win... Sometimes certain beeline build orders will allow you to beat the AI militarily while still not understanding specific aspects of the game.

But my goal, *ultimately* is to learn what makes the game tick, and not win against single-player AI by use of such tricks. I'm more of a casual player I suppose...don't think I will ever reach the level of you, Velociryx, Arrian, and so on...but I thought I'd trow this out there. That's what this board is for, correct?

Yes, I have beat Monarch quite a few times!

**Stageon** · December 16, 2005, 08:32

Originally posted by Datajack Franit

1. circumnavigating the world gives your naval units a +1 movement bonus - you don't have to physically set a naval unit to do the around the world trip, just trade maps and clear out the blank spots by sending your ships. Voilà.

Thank you! Very helpful.

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
4. no, the medic bonus is not cumulative. one for every large stack is enough of a bonus anyway

So the Medic II promotion is only to extend the 10% healing rate to adjacent squares?

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
7. if you connect provide a city producing a wonder some requested raw materials (iron/marble/copper/stone) you get a reduction of the turns needed to produce it, but I'm not sure you get a complete reduction for skipping all those turns without the raw materials

Does anyone know this difinitively?

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
10. beside the cultural influx helping you widening your borders, you get 1 happy face for every 10% of culture in those cities with a theatre; 2 (?) happy faces for every 20% of culture in cities with a colosseum

Thanks. But what about the culture slider? This modifies gross commerce within the cities I presume. Does it have an effect on happiness beyond what theatres and colisseums do?

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
14. you need 100 points to produce a settler, which can be 100 food, 100 shields, 60 and 40, 90 and 10, it doesn't matter.

Thank you! Once again, very helpful.

**Enigma_Nova** · December 16, 2005, 08:33

Re: 20 Points of Clarification

1. Does circumnavigating the globe first benefit you in any way, or does the computer just point it out for s&g?
+1 Movement on all ships forever.

2. An aggressive civ gets free Combat I promotions for its melee and gunpowder units. Are those units actually born with 2 experience points, or can you still reach a 'second' promotion with your first 2 experience points acquired therafter? Easy to check I suppose, but for whatever reason I can't remember if it does. It would be good to get a definitive answer here.
Free promotion, unit is still at 0XP.

3. When a city is founded, does it use the tile it is founded on as its first worked tile, or does it become some kind of standard tile like in previous games? What about if it's built on a special resource tile? (I know you get access to the resource this way, and that the tile cannot be further improved by workers, but do you still net the unimproved yield of the tile?)
2f1p1g is standard, but you get 2p on Hills, and I think you also get 2g if you're on a +gold resource.

4. The Medic II promotion - it gives 10% healing and enables healing from a square away. So does this mean with Medic I & II you get 20% healing on its square and all 8 adjacent squares?
No, Medic I does not stack with Medic II

5. Cavalry are mounted units. They are NOT considered gunpowder units. Correct?
Correct.

6. If you build a city adjacent to a resource tile, do you still need a road on the resource (in addition to the camp/quarry/etc) to access it? I believe you do.
Not if the resource is up/downriver from your city, otherwise yes.

7. Will the 50% reduction to a Wonder's cost due to having Stone/Marble kick in if the resource is hooked up midway through producing the Wonder? Or is the price fixed when it's started?
You get 1 production converted to 2 for as many turns as you are working the wonder and have the resource.

8. The Pentagon and West Point require level 4 and 5 units, respectively, in order to be built. Can these units have existed previously in the game or must they be alive at the time these Wonders become available?
They must be alive. However, the Pentagon doesn't require a level 5 unit. You're thinking of the Heroic Epic.

9. Promotions again. The maximum experience a unit could be born with would be the following situation. Vassalage (+2), Theocracy (+2), Barracks (+4), West Point (+4), Pentagon (+2) = +14 = 4 promotions (starting from 0 xp). If civ is Agressive, some units start with Combat I already...so it's possible for a unit to start life at Combat V (or equivalent) where all these conditions exist. True?
Correct.

10. Culture and happiness... This might be one of those things that everyone understands but me. Happiness, health, commerce in general, coin, science, production...I have a good handle on how exactly it all works. But how exactly does culture (global rate and city amts) affect happiness? Is it like the old luxury rate, a certain amount makes a certain number of people in each city happy? I know about the border pushing effects, city defense, etc., I'm just confused about the happiness bit.
For every 20% you allocate to culture, starting at 20%, a Colloseum produces 1 happy. For every 20% you allocate to culture, starting at 10%, a Theatre produces 1 happy.
City amounts do nothing directly, but many religious buildings boost both culture and happiness.

11. Units only heal if they don't move that turn (except those with March of course). What about if they pillage?
They do not heal.

12. How does the computer choose which trade routes your cities have? Does it take the most profitable? First come first served? Or am I not getting something...
Always the most profitable, with the exception that the big cities, too, can only have 3 trade routes. I do not know which city's trade routes are calculated first.

13. Are the +1 health and +1 happiness bonuses of the Future Techs cumulative?
Yes.

14. When you chop settlers and workers, they'll pop out when you've got enough hammers even though they will have "eaten" less in that amount of time? Seems kinda weird, I thought the purpose of them taking food while they were being built was to simulate the population growth required. Is that the way it works though?
You can chop a Settler. In fact, I almost always chop not only 1, but -3- settlers, and that's before I've started my war machine

15. If I'm Indutrious and I have stone, does this mean a Wonder like The Pyramids is 25% of the base price?
First, Stone adds 100% to your production, then Industrious adds 33% to your production. You get +133% Production, which is not too shabby, but nowhere near the +300% You're thinking of.

16. How does the Philosophical 100% GP procuction combine with GP points contributed by Wonders, improvements, and specialists? Does it basically set the threshold for producing the next GP to 50% of what it would normally be?
It adds 100% of your GPP. Building the Parth and being Phi adds 150% (in total).

17. Do India's fast workers *WORK* 50% faster or just move 50% faster? I assume they work faster, but the manual doesn't specifically say that. Just lists the extra movement point.
Good god, no. Everyone would be playing Gandhi/Asoka if this were the case.

18. Is the increase in worker speed from the Hagia Sophia cumulative, multiplicative, or neither with India's fast workers? In other words, will the workers be 150%, 200%, or 225% the speed of a normal worker?
Serfdom and the Hagia Sofia are additive.

19. What are the EXACT effects of the quick-normal-epic games speeds?
I don't know.

20. What is the effect of the coastline type option?
I don't know.

**Enigma_Nova** · December 16, 2005, 08:35

The power of Experience sometimes leaves gaps in the Knowledge tree.

**Stageon** · December 16, 2005, 08:54

@Mergle and Blake

Thanks for your replies, they were very instructive. Don't know why I didn't pick up on the 'main city tile' dynamics before, but it's great to know.

Blake, I enjoyed your Apolyton U articles tremendously...well done! You have a great style, dry sense of humor, and nice way of fully explaining what it is you're talking about.

Comments - So fast workers don't seem that great a UU...granted the other leader traits may be desireable. Also, I guess I still don't understand the Industrial+Stone/Marble deal... 40% the original price? Can someone lay down an equation or something?

**Stageon** · December 16, 2005, 09:00

Re: Re: 20 Points of Clarification

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
17. Do India's fast workers *WORK* 50% faster or just move 50% faster? I assume they work faster, but the manual doesn't specifically say that. Just lists the extra movement point.
Good god, no. Everyone would be playing Gandhi/Asoka if this were the case.

LOL...Thanks for all the help, Enigma_Nova. I learned a few things from each of the last few posts.

**Arrian** · December 16, 2005, 09:06

The Heroic Epic requires a level 4 unit and West Point requires a level 5. They gotta be alive, yeah. I kept a chariot with ~20 XP around into the industrial era so I could build WP. Actually, he's still around in the modern era, hangin' out with 22XP, and finishing off really badly damaged enemy units. When I get him to level 6, I'll promote him to a Gunship.

-Arrian

**Jamski** · December 16, 2005, 09:13

Originally posted by Stageon
Comments - So fast workers don't seem that great a UU...granted the other leader traits may be desireable.

Well, they can move into a forest and start chopping it on the same turn, for example, or move 2 tiles and then start on the improvement, so they do actually get improvements up faster. I'd estimate they get improvements up in about 80% of the time it takes any other Civ, depending on how you use them. They are a factor that can be levered. Chop-Rushing particually.

Also, I guess I still don't understand the Industrial+Stone/Marble deal... 40% the original price? Can someone lay down an equation or something?

Its not x% of the original price, but your city produces hammers at +x% of the normal rate. So the saving on the original time taken to build the wonder depends on the city's base hammer output.

Example 1:
Base 24 hammers per turn
+50% for Industrious when building a wonder = 12 hpt
+100% for having the correct resource = 24 hpt
TOTAL = (24+24+12) = 60 hpt

So a wonder that needs 1,000 hammers to build would be done in 17 turns instead of 42 turns - that's about 40% of the time it would take otherwise.

Example 2:
Base 60 hammers per turn
+50% for Industrious when building a wonder = 30 hpt
+100% for having the correct resource = 60 hpt
TOTAL = (60+60+30) = 150 hpt

So a wonder that needs 1,000 hammers to build would be done in 7 turns instead of 17 turns - that's about 41% of the time it would take otherwise.

The main reason for the large variance is the rounding involved. You can't use "half a turn's" hammer output and finish something in 17.2 turns. That 17.2 turn build WILL take you 18 turns, sorry. Nice carry-over though