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  • Interface/Micro gripes and suggested solutions.

    1) Auto-move suicide. I hate it how workers, settlers and missionaries will auto-move and end turn next to a hostile unit which was visible before the move. The auto-move should cancel if the next move goes into hostile "zone-of-control", however a unit should only have its orders auto-cancelled once in a turn, if I give it a new automove it should carry it out, no complaints, since I probably plan to either sacrifice it or send an escort along for it (an option for "always cancel automove", "only for non-combat units" and "never" would be good)

    2) Start of turn suicide blues. Related to issue 1, sometimes it's impossible to select a unit at the start of a turn to cancel it's orders before it moves, there needs to at least be an option to always have control at the start of the turn. For this reason I often micro my workers and cancel their jobs at the end of turns, so I can re-order them the next turn and save them from incoming hostiles. It's a lot of micro but it guarantees I don't lose workers. (I only do this in Multiplayer where Workers don't wake up as easily, but if I had an infinite attention span I'd do it a lot more).
    Technically "No unit cycling" sort of does what I want, but in a FAR too heavy-handed way, an in-between option is needed. I'm not a crazy perfectionist but I do want the oppurtunity to fix problems that I notice.

    3) Lack of visual "hostile zone of control" feedback. It's not obvious when hostile units are marauding through my territory, especially with similar flags Japan/England, Barbarian/German, and Japanese units in general camoflauging the hostile-blips on minimap (it'd be nice if they were permanent, too, or a toggle for the permanent hostile blips).
    What I'd like is a dirty great glowing red circle under hostile units that are trespassing in my territory (and a smaller circle under hostile units outside my territory), I'm sick of not noticing entire invasion forces being unloaded on my lands simply because they are so discreet.

    4) "Declare war on player Z?": I'd also like to never again see this popup when moving under a neutral/friends unit, if I want to declare war I'll do it formally, thank you very much.

    5) Auto-move into fog, the sequel. I hate it when there is a hostile unit in the fog and my auto-moving unit commits suicide on it. Even more evil is with a transport ship which is inadvertently auto-moved "onto" a hostile (usually barbarian) unit or city in black fog, it automatically launches an amphibious assault invariably leading to the death of all aboard. This (the ship behavior) may only happen with stack-attack enabled. It makes using auto-move into black-fog TOO DANGEROUS for ships carrying units. The solution is obvious, if something unforeseeable happens the order should be cancelled, not assumed to be "ATTACK!".

    6) Workers building mutually exclusive improvements in a tile. I tell a worker to start a watermill, then accidentally (usually misclick) tell another to start a cottage on the same tile. A lot of work gets undone. 90% of the time I notice though and only lose 1 turn of worker-work. Annoyingly the game will recommend different worker-tasks than ones already underway on the tile (not that I follow the recommendations).
    Two solutions: Either have the already-underway improvement be the recommended one (or even more highly recommended, say with a green glowing border for the icon), and/or have it cancel the tasks of the workers whose work will be undone (since if I'm doing this deliberately, I'll have to cancel their orders anyway).


    Note some of these may not be issues to those who don't play "speed turns", ie with stack attack, fast moves etc. I imagine switching on slow moves for everything would solve most of my gripes, except the finite attention span one.

  • #2
    I've had similar problems with units commiting suicide when I give a route from point A to point B, and then not auto-canceling the move half-way through when a hostile unit is uncovered along the route.

    I've also had plenty of occasions for annoyance when I select a unit to move, inspect the route the game generates for the unit and then approve the route by releasing the mouse button, only to see the unit take a different route than the one initially displayed... Sometimes this also means suicide when enemy units are nearby.

    I've given up and micro-manage just about every move by every unit.

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    • #3
      Micromanagement isn't that bad. I prefer to play this way, though you probably won't have the time to do so in a MP Blitz game.

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      • #4
        You're right, it's not. At least when I'm micro-managing I can only blame myself for screwing up...

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        • #5
          Oh I agree that the micromanagment isn't that bad. I like that with a little tweaking I can trust the city govoners to manage my workers (if not specialists), the worker automation is tolerable when it needs to be, a lot of micro-gripes have been eliminated.

          But fact remains, there is room for improvement, and I've restricted my gripes to the ones that can quite easily be fixed with no or little negative impact. My suggestions are not unreasonable like "The automation should read my mind!!!!111one!". I basically want the automation to work in the best possible way in the most cases possible.

          Another thing:
          7) Stack-attack Suicide Blitz. Take a bunch of tanks and stack-attack a city, if you do it badly the tanks will all die by attacking twice (and attacking when injured = death, usually). What it SHOULD do is only attack once with every unit in the stack, the stack should then ask for orders again, you could then order another stack-attack if the units are still healthy. Here stack-attack is being over-zealous, taking the order as "Attack until you can attack no more!", while it should do the more sensible "Everyone attack once". I'd rather be "forced" to stack-attack twice for easy battles than be forced to split up large stacks into dozens of individual units for very hard battles.
          Note: This stack-attack suicide can be avoided by bringing along stacks containing overwhelming numbers of tanks, since all units attack once, then all units attack again. If you have 15 tanks for 10 defenders then basically every defender will have to fight a healthy tank. Thankfully it's not quite stupid enough to have tank1 attack twice, then tank2 attack twice... but I don't like solutions to micro-problems that involve a change in strategy, basically this technique mandates the use of "Stacks of Doom" rather than seperate smaller stacks. The other thing I do is attack from one move out so that each tank can only attack once. Or I attack with mechinf instead of tanks. So while I've found workarounds the stack-attack suicide remains a big issue for me. The most frustrating thing is stack attack is least useful when it's most needed - in the very late game with huge numbers of tanks.

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          • #6
            Good points, Blake. Damn those 'Stealth Invasions'. Perhaps that counts as 'smarter AI' - hiding in the undergrowth.

            Also that 'Do you want to declare war" is infuriating, and your solution quite correct.

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            • #7
              Re: Interface/Micro gripes and suggested solutions.

              Originally posted by Blake
              Note some of these may not be issues to those who don't play "speed turns", ie with stack attack, fast moves etc. I imagine switching on slow moves for everything would solve most of my gripes, except the finite attention span one.
              Not at all. I need the fixes you are suggesting too in spite of playing with the game's default settings.

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              • #8
                BTW, I think ordering workers around manually is neither trivial nor boring. You really have to think, have to read the landscape to maximize city effectiveness.

                If you think workers are a hassle and just want the action you are playing the wrong game: What you are looking for is Warhammer: Dawn of War. Excellent RTS, but in my opinion very stressing to play (as are most RTS games).

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                • #9
                  But at least the map is balanced, and you can rush military out to harass your opponent's economy without having to worry about your Iron being down on the Ice as Egypt gets its UU before you do.

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                  • #10
                    1, 2, and 3 annoy me and make me use auto-saves which annoys me further. 5 is kinda funny when it happens, wtf where did my unit go, but now I am just careful when moving through FoW.

                    I would like to add in my own:
                    Can I have a Select all healed and Select all damaged units buttons? I mean ugh, find the 1-2 units in a big stack that need healing and taking them out is just annoying to me. Or maybe there's some weird hotkey for it but I can't find it.

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                    • #11
                      This is definitely The most useful thread about Civ4 so far. Someone should sticky it and send it to Fireaxis to include in the next patch.

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                      • #12
                        One more thing that bugs me, when I have a unit fortified in a city it should stay fortified instead of joining the group when I want every other unit to move.

                        Units I have told to sleep, heal, skip, and sentry should not move with the group also.

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                        • #13
                          Most annoying for me is pathing changes between the goto command and the actual order carried out in the same turn

                          For example I might want a unit to go 2 squares to the right and the goto command shows a path of a straight line, when the order is carried out the unit goes NE and then SE because of the simplistic coding for auto-movement.

                          Same amount of turns sure, but not the path the computer said it was going to take none the less.
                          ~I like eggs.~

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                          • #14
                            blake i see that a couple of your issues are based on the assumption of agressiveness or hostility and you'd rather be more docile. you don't want to attack **** that you didn't know was there. you don't want to come closed to baddies if your autoroute takes you close.

                            A 'play style' selector could ultimately determine a lot of this. For example, balls out aggressive would send an exploring warrior to attack uncovered barbs, send ships THRU fog instead of around, wake a sentry unit to GO ATTACK barbarians that enter your territory, assume you want to attack instead of stacking under another civ... etc. aggressive automation.

                            absolute pacifism would be none of this. running away from uncovered barbs, going around fog, not entering goody huts at all, etc...

                            and of course the central neutral setting would be normal play as it is right now.

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                            • #15
                              Not really.

                              Aggressive != Stupid.

                              A galleon unloading a couple of swordmen into a barbarian city with walls and longbows isn't aggressive - it's stupid, or at least foolishly reckless.

                              When a stack of tanks destroys itself, again it's not being aggressive, it's being reckless.

                              In short, wherever there is a oppurtunity to make a significant decision, I want to make that decision.

                              It's not good for the automation to be reckless in a strategy game.

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