Bronzeworking - Too important?

[korn469]

this was meant for the occ thread...

[Blake]

Has anyone else noticed you can poprush a warrior from 0 hammers, for 1 pop, with no loss of hammers? Ie you get 30 hammers added/overflowed regardless of whether you rush from 0 or partial completion.

What this means is you can actually rush 2 warriors with each pop, without even waiting for a turn.

It does make for an interesting gambit - grow to size 3 while building warriors then whip out 4 more warriors, send the 5 warriors in. Probably best for aggressive, and ofcourse this will only work on noble or vs humans.

[korn469]

sorry wrong thread!

[cal_01]

Originally posted by Blake
Has anyone else noticed you can poprush a warrior from 0 hammers, for 1 pop, with no loss of hammers? Ie you get 30 hammers added/overflowed regardless of whether you rush from 0 or partial completion.

What this means is you can actually rush 2 warriors with each pop, without even waiting for a turn.

It does make for an interesting gambit - grow to size 3 while building warriors then whip out 4 more warriors, send the 5 warriors in. Probably best for aggressive, and ofcourse this will only work on noble or vs humans.

Yup. And it probably won't work against Creative civs, since their cities will probably already have the cultural bonus already.

Though, if you have Quechas..

[baboon]

Originally posted by Leifmk


In the games I've played so far (granted, not much above Prince level) I seem to get the best results by engaging in moderate but not radical deforestation early on.

Chops are good in moderation

I'm having nice results with chops just outside the fat cross of my capital. The health bonus stays that way.

[The_Fan]

Maybe it's just a style thing.

Personally, I've gotten a lot of mileage as Gandhi completely ignoring Bronzeworking and making a rush towards all the religions.

If I can even get five of them, I can switch between them at will and build monastaries, sending my research through the roof in the early game. Once I have enough Temples, I can build Cathedrals and supercharge Commerce as well. Then there's all the Great Prophets generated by the Religious Wonders...which allows me to build more Religious Wonders.

Because of this, I don't get Bronzeworking until after Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism have all been established, and then it's just to bide my time until I can go for Code of Laws.

[AgentTBC]

It also depends on difficulty level, Fan. Good luck grabbing 5 religions on Immortal!

My new pet peeve is not being able to destroy a city. I am trying to play as Catherine after Vel's post saying that he found Creative surprisingly useful and I culture flipped a terribly placed Barbarian city before I had a chance to raze it and put a settler in a better spot. Now I have an awful city 3 hexes away from another city with terrible resources and such.

All I can think of is to donate it to another civ, declare war, and then raze it. But thats a stupid hack that shouldn't be necessary.

[Diadem]

When you culture-flip a city you don't get the option to raze (or refuse) it?

It's been a while since I culture-flipped cities, but I thought you did.

[cal_01]

Nope!

Citizen: Wooooo! Let's convert!
Supreme Ruler: Um. No. ::lights match::

Somehow, I just don't see that happening.

edit: stupid triangle brackets

[Merzbow]

Diadem -

I think one advantage of your approach that you are implying but haven't outright yet stated is that there are qualitative differences between having a smaller empire than a larger empire (Vel's approach). I've learned a lot from OCC games and one thing is that it's far easier to maintain a smaller empire in ALL ways. Expanding quickly to 8 cities means you're spending most of your time building 8 workers, 24 archers, 8 courthouses, etc. If you don't need to build those you can concentrate on wonders, a library, market, and so on.

It takes a LONG time before 8 cities are developed and protected enough to be able to outproduce and outcommerce an OCC. Of course the analogy with OCC breaks down once you reach the limit of 2 National Wonders but that comes somewhat later. You can 'simulate' OCC reasonably well with two or three closely-spaced cities.

Around the time that you would be facing a significant production disadvantage (when the AIs have expanded enough to have 8 or more well-developed cities) versus a neighbor then that's the time you go to war to acquire more cities.

OCC is really an amazing educational experience. I've always found myself with a tech advantage on OCC and if I wasn't beelinng for space I could have gone full military production at any time and been a conquest match for most of my neighbors within 15 turns.

[Diadem]

Yes Merzbow, I was definitely implying that

In fact I think the best possible strategy is a semi-OCC one, where you build just 2-4 (depending on map size, resource locations, etc) satellite cities close to your capital.

One major problem with this is that the game forces you to play ICS because of the national wonders. Often you have to build extra cities just to be able to build Oxford or Wallstreet. And here I was thinking they tried to remove ICS.

So build as many cities as you need to build the national wonders, and then no more. At least no more until late age, when you can support a few more cities.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Diadem

One major problem with this is that the game forces you to play ICS because of the national wonders. Often you have to build extra cities just to be able to build Oxford or Wallstreet. And here I was thinking they tried to remove ICS.

This is a exaggeration, as 6 cities is far from infinite, but I know what you're saying. 6 cities is a lot when the AI are spamming cities all around the sweet stuff, only leaving crumbs to somehow get a bank & university into. Not ICS (Infinite City Sprawl), more like MCS (Minimum Civ Size).

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Blake
Well they say that once you got commie you never go back,

Who said that?

[Merzbow]

Ack I forgot about the 6 cities requirement for Oxford, etc. That's a more major difference between regular and OCC. If you go semi-OCC and want to take advantage of Oxford, etc. you need to start taking AI cities very soon after Education comes in.