Does the AI ever build nukes?

[rjwoer]

I have yet to see a game where nukes play a big part since as soon as the UN is built if an AI player is secretary general they introduce non proliferation as the first voting option..bye bye nukes...everyone always votes yes to this

Oddly enough I just finished a game and I couldn't get the AI to agree to the non-proliferation treaty. I kept trying, but no dice. I had about thirty nukes by the end of the game. It's the first time I've ever had the non-proliferation proposal fail.

I agree that nukes are too watered down in Civ 4. I've only produced them so I can retaliate if the need arises. I think a lot of the ideas in this thread would be good modifications to the game. They way things stand now (severe diplomatic repercussions and modest effect on the target city) it's just too unbalanced. Keep the diplomatic repercussions, but make nukes more devastating.

[marvinkosh]

The effects of that much radiation should mean that any unit which wasn't able to dive in the bomb shelter will be unable to heal for several turns. Equally, any unit which remains in a fallout square will be unable to heal.

Fallout should also affect the tile the city stands upon.

In essence, it will be more prudent to fall back the existing garrison to somewhere that you can heal your soldiers, and bring up reinforcements if you intend to hold onto what's left of the city.

The diplomatic penalty for using nukes also needs beefing up if they are made more powerful.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Melloj
I have yet to see a game where nukes play a big part since as soon as the UN is built if an AI player is secretary general they introduce non proliferation as the first voting option..bye bye nukes...everyone always votes yes to this.

Duh, obviously you need to build them before the treaty.

[Xerxes712]

I just did a test. I went into World Builder and simply gave a nation that I am at war with (Montezuma of Inca) several ICBM.

He, the AI, sure as hell did nuke me the next turn. So yes the AI WILL use nukes against you!

Now, this does not prove they WILL build nukes in the first place though. And it may depend upon the AI personality trait. Montezuma is agressive whereas Ghandi is not.

The power of the Nuke can be changed in the GlobalDefinesinfo.xml with a simple text editor.

You can change, chances for buildings to be destroyed, units in city, fallout per tile chance, distance for fallout from city affected radius, and population death.

Plus diplomatic penalties can be altered. You can change effectivness of SDI and Fallout Bunkers too.

It is very simple to edit.

One more longer test would be give the AI everything it needs to build a nuke and see if actually it does. The AI puts a 'weight' value on what it will build. It would be interesting to see if it will build them.

I sure know if the AI is really pissed out you (and is losing the game), and it has at least the agressive trait (only one tested), it will nuke you without you having nukes, or ever using them yourself.

Fallout Bunkers may only protect the units/and or population by 75%. I think Fallout still occurs as normal. Needs testing. The time it takes for Fallout to be scrubed away can be increased also.

Do not under estimate the lost production and food that it does to a city from fallout. It makes the squares unusable for food and prodution. -3 food, and -3 hammers. Since a mine can put out 5 hammers, and food source can be at 5, you could make the fallout more deadly by increasing it to -5 F, -5 H.

Improvements (such as Farms and Mines) within the blast radius (default is radius one square) also has to pass a chance check too to survive, which also can be changed.

One thing I noticed, if you get nuked, you do not see YOUR city get the mushroom cloud animation effect or anything at all. Just a message and you can see the fallout glowing.

[Shogun Gunner]

Originally posted by Xerxes712

One thing I noticed, if you get nuked, you do not see YOUR city get the mushroom cloud animation effect or anything at all. Just a message and you can see the fallout glowing.

That is signficantly lame. I noticed this as well in one of my games.

[Diadem]

What are the precise effects of nukes these days?

I've only tried it once, and it seemed to half the city, though it was in the middle of the Fog of War so I can't be sure what it did.

[Nik]

In GlobalDefines.xml at post 145 (with XMLSpy) you can find this, and edit the Nuke strength to be more deadly.
The tags should explain them self...

<Define>
    <DefineName>NUKE_FALLOUT_PROB</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>50</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
    <DefineName>NUKE_UNIT_DAMAGE_BASE</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>25</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
    <DefineName>NUKE_UNIT_DAMAGE_RAND_1</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>50</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
    <DefineName>NUKE_UNIT_DAMAGE_RAND_2</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>50</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
    <DefineName>NUKE_NON_COMBAT_DEATH_THRESHOLD</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>60</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
    <DefineName>NUKE_BUILDING_DESTRUCTION_PROB</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>30</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
    <DefineName>NUKE_POPULATION_DEATH_BASE</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>20</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
    <DefineName>NUKE_POPULATION_DEATH_RAND_1</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>20</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
    <DefineName>NUKE_POPULATION_DEATH_RAND_2</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>20</iDefineIntVal>
</Define> 

[Bluefusion]

Yes nukes are definately nerfed in this game. It's a terrible waste of hammers when I have to send 10 nukes before I even get one to hit, and it doesn't even do anything to the stackoriffic stack in his city other than force it to heal for two turns.

I'm all for hellishly powerful nukes that create all sorts of global warming.

Plus, whatever happened to mutually assured destruction?

Perhaps nukes should only be launched at the end of one's turn, and then right before they land--But before the "nukee" has a chance to move his troops--the "nukee" gets a chance to launch his missiles back.

Although this probably will nerf nukes more, at least it creates the idea of mutually assured destruction...

And WTF is with me not even being able to see nukes explode? The second I send off a nuke it focuses me in on the city from which I launched it. VERY NOT COOL. I wanna see the thing blow up!

[rjwoer]

To Bluefusion: Well put. I couldn't agree more.

And Nik, thanks for pointing out the code. I will use it to improve things. Bwaa ha ha!

[Nikolai]

There's only one Nik on this forum! Beware, usurper!

[Datajack Franit]

[Enigma_Nova]

An all-powerful nuke that kills all buildings, all units and half the population (save for Bomb Sheltering) would make an excellent tactical device.
Though, its production cost would have to increase to compensate for its wtfpwnage power.

[Bluefusion]

Also, the ramifications for using a nuke are hardly existent. I launched no less than 20 nukes at Mansa and the most negative points I received towards any other AI for using them was -2.

I say increase the power, but increase the diplomacy loss. That's one thing I liked about Civ 3. Nukes were pretty powerful, but the second you used them you knew that you could kiss most of your trade agreements bye-bye.

Foreign relations could be a much more powerful counter to powerful nukes, if you are afraid that nukes would become too powerful without the nerfing.

[Josquius]

People never get nukes in my games, I managed to get one once and thats it.
They take so long to build that by the time you have finished the manhatten project and start to build the UN is also built- and the UN always validates nuclear disarmament.

[rjwoer]

India just nuked Rome in my current game. Wonders never cease!