Early A.I invasions on higher dificulties

[Saurus]

I soooo hate it!!
Out of my five last game, 3 have ended long, long before reaching year zero and always for the same reason - The Mongolian early invasion - the invasion that seems totaly impossible to counter against.


So here is the setting: Pangea, Monarch, Standard world.

The problem: Somewhere around turn 40 Mongols declare war and then their stacks starts to pop up just everywhere... suddenly there is a stack of 4 chariots turning up just west of my city, another stack of 3 archers turning up from east... a third stack of 2 chariots + 1 archer appear just close to the second stack..
....but that´s not his entire invasion force. He also has 2 galleys(!) heading for my city packed with units (can´t remeber the exact lineup but I think it was 2 archers + 1 chariot)
Remember, this is still VERY early in the game.

One of a sudden this has become such pain in the *** !
Does anyone have any strategical advice as how to counter such a massive invasion during early game?
(A few archer parked in a city won't do the job ... they are far outbumbered!)I am not entirely sure but is feels like that should I be pumping out ONLY military units in my only city (witch is NOT an option from the strategical point of view) it is still doubtful if the invasion of this massive force could be hindered.


Somehow I also feel a bit annoyed as well.
Sure the A.I should be given bonuses and extra units on higher difficulties ... but starting the game with several bonus military units + a worker for an instant buildup of infrastructure ... and then a few turns later throwing them mindlessly against the hapless human makes for a very clear outcome - whitout anything strategic beeing involved whatsoever and that feels stupid.
Damn those Mongolians ...

Any thoughts?

[UnOrthOdOx]

It took me a good number of games at monarch before it all just 'clicked' in my head, and since it has seemed easy.

You need to come out of the gates and research either bronze or archery early. You'll need the units, warriors won't cut it.

You need to make more units yourself as well. Defending cities with a lone warrior just doesn't cut it. Dedicate either your capitol or second city to making units. Build a barracks and crank out troops. Even if it's going to be a 'science city' or "GP city" or something later. MAKE UNITS.

Wait to build that temple, or library, or what have you until you have those units.

Just what and how many you need all depends on your style, so I'll leave that to you, but it's a considerable jump going to Monarch.

[Derelict]

If we're talking Genghis in particular, you pretty much need to get bronze working and get your hands on a copper source if at all possible. You'll need spears to best counter a Genghis rush.

The other thing to look for is a message that the Pyramids were built--Genghis loves to get the Pryamids so he can switch into Police State and just crank out the units. If you see the "pyramids were built", it'll be shortly after you also see "Genghis has switched to Police State" and you'll know right away that someone is going to get banged out. Frequently he'll start attacking within just a couple turns after that, as all his cities will be que'd with military units at a faster rate than pretty much anyone else.

He also prefers chariots for the obvious reason that he can upgrade them to Keshik, but if you can get spears built in some numbers you'll counter his attack pretty well and he'll resort to pillaging and just plain trying to bottle you up. You may have to let him, taking opportunity where you can to thin him out--eventually he'll give in and sign a peace treaty with you, likely for a tech demand. But don't stop building military units because it'll just be a breather for him! If you can't build up to something fairly decent, in terms of number of military units (and viable ones ... no warrior garbage unless you absolutely have no other option!), he will declare war again on you.

It's pretty much like UnOrthOdOx said--and it's very true the higher in difficulty you go. You have to develop a decent military before you concentrate on anything else. You can be sure that Genghis, or others of his ilk, are doing just that looking for whomever they can to take advantage of.

And warriors definitely won't do it for ya, particularly not against Genghis--his chariots will eat you up, as you can see. Even archers are only slightly better ... you really need to get metal units kicking to have a solid chance if he picks you as the target, and he will if you aren't building up an army! Just be stronger than the next guy and you increase your odds of not even being attacked, let along surviving one. At the higher levels of difficulty, the odds are already stacked against you, so skimping on a military is an almost certain invitation.

It's sort of like you and a buddy coming across a bear. You don't have to run faster than the bear, you just have to run faster then your buddy.

[Bobby Chicken]

I have found that someone pleased with you will never declare war...

[Philotas]

Originally posted by Bobby Chicken
I have found that someone pleased with you will never declare war...

Be careful about that. Some of the AI's will attack even if they say they're your best buddy in the whole world. Especially if your defenses are weak. Alexander is a good example. He may be hugging you and telling you how great you are, when he's really looking over your shoulder to see how well your cities are defended.

[Yosh]

LOL Philotas - that's so true!

Louie and Boney are the same way - just don't trust them when they say they like you! The AI will NOT hesitate to attack if it sees a clear opportunity!

At the higher difficulty levels, ALL the civs, in one way or another, are opportunistic bas***!

I have found that the ONLY way to counter an "aggressive" AI (like Genghis, Alexander, Monty, etc), is to build that strong military force EARLY, and then USE it! It doesn't necessarily need to be on them, but on someone perhaps close to them.

Case in point:

My latest game on Monarch was on Continents playing as Mansa Munsa; my starting continent had me placed on the southern edge, with Vickie up North, then Boney, Hattie, Cyrus, and Cathy all spread around. To my west, within Galley distance, was good ol' Genghis. Now, I started freaking out a bit, because I had two extemely aggressive civs right on my doorstep, so to speak, plus I was boxed in by Vickie.

The solution was obvious *smirk*

Vickie is always way too dependent on the diplomacy and goodwill of others; consequently, I was able to "acquire" some of her cities - I simply had my swordsmen say "hi" to her, and the cities were mine! *grin*

I had one city that had decent production, and since I didn't have religion yet, I devoted it to pumping out military units, slipping in the occassional worker or settler to keep it from growing past health/happiness. The next thing I knew, I was 2nd in soldier count, I had made Vicky my b***, and Genghis and I were "pals" (in acquiring one of Vickie's cities, I got Confucianism, which Genghis had founded)!

Perhaps the AI on this particular map is whacked, but I'm not sure that Genghis has warred ANYONE yet - and he's got Vickie's LAST city (with just a longbow and spear guarding it) on his doorstep, not to mention Gandhi and Saladin near him... it's only a matter of time I say... but in the meantime, I have some Frogs to fry!

On a side note, Velociryx's strategy thread advocates bullying the AI into giving away techs and such... on the higher difficulty levels, this is impossible, as the AI will no doubt fear you, especially if you're whipping them, but they will still refuse to trade any but the most cursory techs for peace!