My Permanent Ally ruined my Space Race Victory

[Nikander]

Hi, first time poster here, long time player of Civ (ever since the first one).

I just thought I'd share this strange and rather annoying thing that happened to me in a custom Noble/7 civs game with Perm Allies enabled.

It was late in the game (I was already building my Space Ship), and Victory seemed a sure thing. Then people start going Alliance crazy. Within a fairly short time the Chinese form an Alliance with the English, and then with the Romans. Wham! They're in the Score lead.

No problem, they still haven't finished even the Apollo program, and I'm already on my way, so no worries, right? Wrong! So very, very wrong!

Just for the heck of it I formed an Alliance with Egypt (I'd been really nice to them throughout the game). I didn't need it for Victory (we still couldn't beat the Chi-Eng-Rom Score), but I figured it wouldn't do any harm and I was curious to see what it does. And this carefree foolishness was my undoing!

With 25 turns to go, we discover the Tech for the last missing piece of my (our) Space Ship, and before I can do anything with my fully functioning super-cities, the Egyptians start building that piece in one of their Palookavilles in the back country! According to the City Info it would take - get this - a 187 turns to finish building the piece there! 187 turns! With only 25 turns to go!

There was no way to ask the Egyptians to change their prod (or change it myself) so I could finish the Space Ship in time, no way to end the Alliance (didn't really expect one, since it IS permanent) and no way to wipe out the Shanty Town (as a last desperate measure). And since it was a unique piece, I couldn't even start builing it in my own cities. Or maybe I'm missing something?

So, as I watched my almost finished Space Ship rust in orbit while waiting for the "help" of my "trusty" Allies, I concluded that there were two possibilities: A) The AI is a silly pooh, and doesn't take into consideration when the game is going to end. B) The Egyptians were actually cunning double agents of the Chi-Eng-Rom Empire, and they sabotaged my Space Victory while appearing to be my friends (the Triple Empire eventually won the Time Victory).

I went with B, because it made my loss seem that much more... justified.

Anyway, it's just a game and I had a blast, but I just wanted to share this with y'all, as a fair warning against Permanent Alliances. Be afraid of them... be very afraid! Or at least know what you are doing. I didn't.

Sorry for my long post, and thanks for reading!

[Diadem]

Holy ....! Talk about design flaws!

The game should allow you to double produce stuff. I never understood why you aren't allowed to build two of the same thing. There's a lot of situations where it makes sense.

Sure, you spaceship doesn't need a second engine. But it's not like it's impossible to build two.

Imagine you're attacked full force just as you are about to complete your spaceship. Building that final part in 3 cities at once makes sense then. They might raze one city, but no way they are gonna raze three.

[Son of David]

Maybe that's why permanent alliances are off by default. I.e. maybe it's not a good idea to put yourself at the mercy of an algorithim!

[FinnishGuy]

Just a stupid design oversight... hopefully it gets fixed in the next patch.

[baboon]

I'm just really convinced you should never get that close with the AI.

[Jeje2]

Thx for the info - would that have happened to me there would be at minimun the need to buy a new keyboard for me. (Situation like this is totally unacceptable under any and all circumstances.)

P.S. Tervetuloa

[Handel]

Tghe problem with the space vistory enabled is when the AI (no matter if it is an rnrmy or friend) discover the corrresponding tech, it dumps every other activity and starts to build the space parts at all costs.

[isak]

I found my self on the receiving end of something like that too, but when I declared war on an enemy close to my ally, he discarded the production of the spaceship parts, and started pumping out units instead, allowing me to take over the production of the spaceship part.

Still, I think you're right, this should probably be adressed somehow.

[GeoModder]

Have just finished an allied space victory here. As long as the last spaceship part(s) is/are already under production, your ally's production scheme doesn't stop your current production.

The weird thing here was that I tried this time to have victory with my Roman ally and afterwards did a reload to win on my own. The end result (on my own) was a 150 points lower, and being remembered as Nero instead of Chamberlain.
Seems that allied victories are rewarded (in points) the same as solo victory, for I finished the game on my own only 3 turns later.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Diadem
Holy ....! Talk about design flaws!

The game should allow you to double produce stuff. I never understood why you aren't allowed to build two of the same thing. There's a lot of situations where it makes sense.

Sure, you spaceship doesn't need a second engine. But it's not like it's impossible to build two.

Imagine you're attacked full force just as you are about to complete your spaceship. Building that final part in 3 cities at once makes sense then. They might raze one city, but no way they are gonna raze three.

think about it this way. In our international space station. We actually did double design some components. Which really paid off when the Russians didn't have the funding for some of theirs.

[Stuie]

Funny - I actually won a Spaceship victory without building a single piece of the ship. My two permanent allies built the whole thing, and they only built in their best cities.

Guess I got lucky.

[Nikander]

Originally posted by Diadem
The game should allow you to double produce stuff.

I fully agree. I sort of understand the restriction with Wonders, since they are truly supposed to be unique, but the Space Ship parts are, after all, only pieces of machinery, however grand and advanced they might be.

Originally posted by baboon
I'm just really convinced you should never get that close with the AI.

Too right! From now on its going to be: me / 10-foot pole / Permanent Alliance.

Originally posted by Jeje2
Thx for the info - would that have happened to me there would be at minimun the need to buy a new keyboard for me. (Situation like this is totally unacceptable under any and all circumstances.)

P.S. Tervetuloa

Thankfully the days of keyboard destruction are behind me, and I can approach games with a peaceful middleaged Zen attitude... when I find the time to play, that is (not that often). Ja kiitos.

Originally posted by isak
I found my self on the receiving end of something like that too, but when I declared war on an enemy close to my ally, he discarded the production of the spaceship parts, and started pumping out units instead, allowing me to take over the production of the spaceship part.

Well, there really should be a simpler and more graceful way to achieve this. Few options come into mind (I'm no computer programmer, so I have no idea how easy or difficult these would be to implement): 1) Diplomacy Screen: ask the Ally to stop/start producing something 2) City Screen: have access to the Ally's build queues like in your own cities 3) Simply allow double production of unique items for Allies.

Originally posted by Stuie
Funny - I actually won a Spaceship victory without building a single piece of the ship. My two permanent allies built the whole thing, and they only built in their best cities.

Guess I got lucky.

Yep, you got lucky. And you probably got much better Allies, as well.

[MattPilot]

I wonder if it is possible to change the production que in the world builder. Should work as a temporary fix, if possible.

[Kuciwalker]

Or just delete the city.

[Nikander]

Originally posted by MattPilot
I wonder if it is possible to change the production que in the world builder. Should work as a temporary fix, if possible.

Using the World Builder during games leads to the Dark Side.