Judaism: The Viral Religion

[TheArsenal]

Perhaps discussed elsewhere.

But I am now very curious as to what the factors are in the “spontaneous” spread of religion in this game. I ask, because anecdotally I noted that Judaism seems to take off on its own and spread far, far more quickly than the others. In one game, I had both Hinduism and Judaism, and Judaism outspread my concerted effort to spread Hinduism with Missionaries. I was actually forced to switch religions for diplomatic purposes.

But the strangest thing happened last night. I am playing on a slightly larger than Huge maze map with 13 Civs (changed the map size to 40 by 25 from 32 by 20 in the XML file) and have no trade networks set up, no Harbors, and no borders which are directly against one another. I do have Open Borders with the 4 Civs I have contact with. My neighbors do not have Judaism in any of their cities. (Even if I couldn’t see all their cities, I find the first religion get to an early Civ is the one they adopt, so I would know).

One of my cities, pretty far from other Civs, suddenly adopted Judaism. Meaning, somehow, Judaism leapt (leapt mind you) over at least one entire Civ to get to my outermost city. Crazy.

I’m at work. When I get home I’ll post a screen shot and maybe an auto save if I can get it to replicate the feat.

[Tattila the Hun]

Time for a pogrom, no?

[Common Sensei]

I find that the longer cities go without a religion, the "hungrier" they get for one, so that they are "starving" for one once you get later and later in the game.

I had one game with two neighbors on a continent once and none of us were Spiritual, and the other civs were and got the three early ones (Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism). I managed to get Confucianism and within four turns, around 75% of all of our three civilizations' cities had Confucianism. It was the most viral spreading of religion I have ever seen in the game.

Also note that if you plunk a new city down, say part 1500 or 1600 or so, it gets a religion within a turn or two.

[Arrian]

and have no trade networks set up, no Harbors, and no borders which are directly against one another...

Do you have sailing? If you have sailing, IIRC, you have coastal trade. Harbors just increase the value of the trade routes.

-Arrian

[Drachasor]

I think Judaism spreads so quickly because of when it is discovered. New religions tend to appear at newer cities. These newer cities are usually close to a lot more cities without religion than the older ones. Hence when Judaism appears it usually is in a spot well-suited for rapid spreading.

There are only two other religions that appear before Judaism so there aren't a lot of cities with religion. Other religions appear much later, so there are already a lot of cities with religion.

If you switch out any religion with Judaism you'd find the same thing would happen.

-Drachasor

[TheArsenal]

Harbors don’t enable water trade, right, of course … that was some other game. I do have Sailing which may explain the spread a little better. As Judaism was formed “in a distant land” it still requires a Civ which I do not have contact with and don’t fully comprehend yet where it could possibly be, to spread religion by the water ways bypassing at least one other Civ. Despite the map literally being a maze, I have done limited Galley exploration and the religion would have to be quite a swimmer to make it to my shores in this manner, particularly in the short time it has been in existence. In addition, my cities with Buddhism are connected and much closer to the city which adopted the Foreign Religion, than the other Civ's cities could possibly be.

I just wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out the latter religions in the game are geared to spread faster to compensate for their later appearance. Or at least something semi-random is built in there. Isn’t there a file or something that can be opened up and looked at to determine this?

[Xerxes712]

**I just wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out the latter religions in the game are geared to spread faster to compensate for their later appearance. Or at least something semi-random is built in there. Isn’t there a file or something that can be opened up and looked at to determine this?**

Yes. there are settings for rate of spread of religion by natural means. Holy Cities really have a high rate. I did not notice if it is one universal setting, or each religion is different.

Religion will spread via roads, active trade, and ANY water ways. So even if you are on a river, and your other city is on the coast half a world away, it can spread to it. Even to other Civs that has no Theocracy civic in play.

[Saurus]

Judaism spread quickly??
Then you should have seen my game last night.
I founded Hinduism. At least 30 turns passed and at first it did not spread anywere - not even to my own cities promptly connected via river routes.
Then suddenly, like a wildfire, things started to happen..
Some 50 turns later every nation (exept one, Saladin) in the world had adoted Hinduism (they even abandoned their native state religions!) so that out of 7 nations, 6 had converted to Hinduism and I had not even built any missionaires.

...Of course, having the same religion, did not stop Montezuma from once again wiping me out of existence ...

[Diadem]

I think the distance does not matter. If a city is connected to multiple cities, the chances of getting a religion from those cities are equal to each city (maybe if one has more religions that changes, I wouldn't know that). The distance does not matter.

So it's not surprising religions jump far distances. I've often seen cities on the far end of an empire catching one of my religions first.

[Arrian]

I think there is a fair amount of random chance involved. I had one game where Hinduism (founded by me) spread like wildfire early on, converting 3 AI empires right off the bat. I've hand games where my religion barely spread outside my borders, and I've actually had to work to get it properly spread throughout my own empire.

-Arrian