A civic duty

[djpsychonaut]

Originally posted by Common Sensei


Easiest use of Caste System is for newly founded cities. Force one artist for three rounds and the city expands to the fat cross. Caste System makes any civilization pseudo-Creative.

Interesting strategy... never really thought of it. I'll have to try that next game. I still like Serfdom for the nice bonus to improving terrain. I'll have to try mixing it up a bit next time.

[Enigma_Nova]

I'll typically go with Organised Religion when I want to spam religion all over the place. Normally, I'd go Pacifism to reduce the high cost of OR.

[djpsychonaut]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
I'll typically go with Organised Religion when I want to spam religion all over the place. Normally, I'd go Pacifism to reduce the high cost of OR.

But isn't Pacifism also costly, at least in terms of unit support?

[Optimizer]

Seems like Government civics are mainly for balance between happiness and productivity.

[Cort Haus]

Playing a Modern Era start with a Spiritual Civ is a good way to experiment with Civics. You quickly have a mature Civ with (almost) all Civics available and can try a new combo every 5 turns. Uni Suff at the start to cash-rush science buildings in the capital, with Serfdom for quick tile improvements, then Emancipation once some cottages are down to grow them up. Organised Religion for first missionaries then faster buildings. A spot of Vasselage / Theocracy to build units, perhaps some Pacificm to grow a Great Person or two, and Free Speech + Uni Suff once the towns are mature and ready for their bonuses.

[djpsychonaut]

Cort Haus, that's one way to experiment, but I think it's always best that Civ players start from the Ancient era to fully appreciate all of the civics options. For example, Slavery is the only Labor civic available for quite some time. I usually never use it, but it's important that people hone their early game strategies without getting too used to later civics (esp Universal Sufferage).

[swat-spas2]

Early game I go with Representation (I'm a sucker for Pyramids), since I don't have alot of gold or towns yet. Free Religion is nice if you get several religions or you are tired of pissing off someone. Organized is usually worth the high cost since you get buildings up quicker and it lasts almost the entire game. Free Market is good, but I'll go with State Property in some games. Either lots of grassland workshops/mills or a spread out empire. That one is actually cheaper than no upkeep.. Disadvantage is that it usually means slower research with fewer towns, but if you focus it some places it works pretty well, or build alot of coastal cities.
I've used Pacifism when I have a ton of wonders or am Phi, but I don't find it as useful, it generally only effects 2-3 cities and you have to fork out the cash you saved on your military.

I can't see why you would switch from Emancipation unless you've killed all the advanced civs or have tons of luxuries to offset the penalty. I've gone through several entire games not switching that one until I get Democracy. Slavery is good for the pop rush, but not very often, like if i'm getting my butt kicked in a war somewhere (not bloodly likely, the AI usually ends up just pillaging, or trying to). Serfdom I usually don't even get until I have either Hagia or am about done "working" my area for a while. Caste is nice if you're Phi for I'd say mid-game when you start to get some biggie cities. I like the pseudo-creative civ idea there though.

Bureaucracy is probably best on a smallish map or obviously OCC... Vassalage is perhaps also, and only in conjunction with a total war setting (with Police and Theocracy). Free speech is ridiculous in comparison to the rest of these though. Liberalism tech is I think the break point for most of my games so far. .that thing is insane, two potent civics and a free tech.

I haven't used police state or heritary, but both seem to have some usefulness if you have lots of stationary units and few luxuries or are at full-on-war and don't really have towns left for research. Suffrage and Representation are much superior I think though. Pyramids is the early game focus for me. .if you get that, Constitution is another 2000 years away for the other fellas.. It doesn't help a ton "right" away, but it kicks once you get some specialists or a big city up, which is soon enough.

Enviromentalist looks like a late game point booster or a throw-in to those lumbermillers out there. State property and free market just rule over it though. High upkeep for extra health just doesn't seem that important. I've had several size 30s in one game without it. Mercantalism seems rather useless so far. I rather like getting money off the AI if I can. I did use it one game because I was off to myself until Astronomy. But that wasn't very long in use.

[Ithkul2]

If im going a peaceful game I might choose a philosophy leader. add with wonders and the pasifist civic and you will be pumping out G-men. Add representation, beaurocrasy (cant spell that) and enviromentalism when it comes around. I personaly like serfdom, but later I have trouble choosing a good labor.

And ofcourse when you do deside to have a war plan ahead, you DONT need those military civics untill you start pumping out army at the majority of your cities.

[Ithkul2]

Originally posted by swat-spas2
Enviromentalist looks like a late game point booster or a throw-in to those lumbermillers out there. State property and free market just rule over it though. High upkeep for extra health just doesn't seem that important. I've had several size 30s in one game without it. Mercantalism seems rather useless so far. I rather like getting money off the AI if I can. I did use it one game because I was off to myself until Astronomy. But that wasn't very long in use.

Dont forget that added health = added food (if your city is big enuff). added food = added population. Added population = added hammers, gold, reseach or what ever you might need. Enviromentalism is much more powerful than you might think. To bad its so late game. I find my cities fighting health problems way early game.

[xenophile58]

Police State, Vassalage, State Property and Theocracy seems ideal to me for those long bitter wars of annihilation, especially with your co-religionists.

[Philotas]

Caste System is still one of my favorite civics. With it, I can design my cities, and my civilization, to fit into my current situation. If I've expanded too fast and need extra income, then I just pop some merchants anywhere I like. If research is needed, then extra scientists can be created. Also works well to start designing specialized cities early and controlling what GP's are produced.

[Arrian]

Bureaucracy is probably best on a smallish map or obviously OCC...

It's true that its value scales inversely to the overall size of your empire (# of cities), but FYI it's still pretty darned poweful on a standard map. I find it hard to tear myself away from it even very late in the game when I've got 15 or 20 cities... .

Caste System + Pacifism = GPfest. If you're philosophical and/or you have the parthenon... oh my. You just have to focus on it, at the expense of some other things... come to think of it, this is probably most effective with large empires, where turning a city or two into GP factories really doesn't hamper you all that much.

-Arrian

[Philotas]

Originally posted by Arrian



Caste System + Pacifism = GPfest. If you're philosophical and/or you have the parthenon... oh my. You just have to focus on it, at the expense of some other things... come to think of it, this is probably most effective with large empires, where turning a city or two into GP factories really doesn't hamper you all that much.

-Arrian

If I'm at three or four cities and still have room to expand...and don't yet have a religion....I typically bee-line to CoL. Gives me Caste System, Confucianism, and courthouses. Then I can turn one city into a merchant pump, using all the GP merchants that are created into super specialists. The extra gold makes it easier to expand, plus the extra food from the merchants allows that city to continue to grow.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Arrian
Representation, Caste System, Bureacracy, Free Market, Pacifism (early-mid game) or Free Religion (mid-to-late game).

The commerce of Free Market does seem to trump the GP production of Mercantilism, unless most cities are inland, like in a Great Plains map.

Originally posted by Arrian
I will eventually switch over to Emancipation and Universal Suffrage, but usually do that quite late. I don't think I've used Free Speech yet. I'd rather keep Bureacracy...

Free Speech needs plenty of towns away from the capital to haul more commerce than Bureaucracy, even before the hammer loss. Larger empires with many towns and distant colonial borders to quicky expand, or in cultural competition at the core can find it useful.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by djpsychonaut
Cort Haus, that's one way to experiment, but I think it's always best that Civ players start from the Ancient era to fully appreciate all of the civics options. For example, Slavery is the only Labor civic available for quite some time. I usually never use it, but it's important that people hone their early game strategies without getting too used to later civics (esp Universal Sufferage).

Having played out a lot more starts than finishes, I felt like I knew my way around the early game reasonably well, but suffered from poor use of the later civics, amongst other things.

So, to get more familiar with the units, techs, buildings and wonders, as well as all the civic choices of the modern era I thought it might be fun to start some games at that point. At no point am I likely to forget that Environmentalism is unavailable at the start of the game.

The good thing about this training exercise (with a spiritual civ) is that you can see what effect civics have 'straight away' on that mature empire that you're aiming to build in a proper game. You can also see what effect civics have on diplomacy. I just switched to Police State to try and befriend Monty and Peter, and I was able to then (expensively) get Peter to join me against Napoleon's recent attack, with a view of grabbing a much-needed longer-term ally.

Normally I wouldn't even research Fascism, let alone try the civic, but that's just an example of how those strategic research choices made much earlier in the game are better-informed by having had experience of the outcomes.