Another developer using it's customers as Beta Testers

[CBR1100]

I bought this game coz I got completely p*ssed off trying to get X3 Reunion to run. My system is well above recommended specs let alone minimum specs but in both cases the games were released in a half finished state. Reading both the X3 forum and this one it's obvious that PC game developers are not taking the time to perfect a their product before release. Is it fair that you have to wait untill patch after patch has been released before you can actually play the game.
I've downloaded the latest patch for this game and if anything it's worse than before. The CTD's aren't as bad but the thing is just freezing every time I try to move my view across the map and a reload taked 20 mins!!!. This with a P4 3.2, 1 Gig ram and a Gforce 5950 Ultra graphics card.

And here's me thinking a turn based game with not to much animtion going on would be less of a pain to get to run. And before anyone starts lecturing me on how difficult and complex getting these games developed is then what about console games. They can't release a half baked game and then start fixing it when the customers find it dooesn't work. No wonder the PC games market is struggling against the console market.

And yes I know console games tend to have simpler interfaces and more dedicated hardware but I'm begining to think the frustration of getting the lastest PC games to work out of the box is not worth the extra depth that the games have.

I remember the very first Civilisation which I played on my old ZX spectrum 3 (with revolutionary disc drive) and I've played every one since and to be honest this one doesn't offer that much over latest either in graphics or game play so how can it be so bugged???

Rant over, game going back to the shop....just can't be bothered.

[Skeeve]

Have you tried any of the suggested fixes to get the game working more smoothly?

I almost took it back to the store myself when I couldn't get the game to work with my ATI video card, but the forums had posted some good fixes, which worked for me.

Yeah - I am none too happy with the occasional CTD, (even after patch 1.09) but I got used to quick-saving.

One thing to keep in mind: I think most people would rather have a playable albeit buggy game early on, rather than waiting another year for the developer to perfect it.

Of course, patches have to be free and accessible, which so far in every Civ title, they have.

Good Luck whatever you decide.

[Stone-D]

Use windowed mode, and set your desktop to 16 bit. No visual difference, all of the slowdown problems go away. Also, ever since I discovered that, I haven't had a single CTD.

Also you might want to download my low res texture mod. It helps with the ram usage and minimizes the pause when diplomacy windows load.

Accusing developers of using end users as beta testers is something that should be held in reserve for those companys who most qualify.

Lionhead, for a start. Black & White, Creature Isle, Fable, Black & White 2 and now The Movies. Support? Yeah right. I got all of them, but refuse to fall for it again and will not buy The Movies unless LH provide support for the games I've already paid for.

Its a damn shame, because, technically, they're all seriously impressive. But that's it... they're all tech demos. Rushed out the door and forgotten about.

Civ4? At least they released a patch. At least we get feedback from the devs themselves.

Egosoft? They're a bunch of egomaniacs. Berndt was overly obsessed with keeping a tight rein on X modding, limiting it to an internal scripting language within the game. No adding new ships, modding existing ships, etc, beyond newbie texture editing.

I gave up on them. After doing serious modding for X-Tension and some preliminary modding for X2, I dropped out.

I'm the author of XTPatch and X2Patch, btw, if you're familiar with them.

[John-SJ]

I tried windowed mode at someone's suggestion the other day, but found the game to be unplayable.

The problem was that the visual position of the mouse did not match the game position. E.g. I hover over a square with the mouse, the description for the square is the description for the square to the right. Or, I tell a unit to "goto" and the place it ends up is offset from the square I clicked on.

Is there a fix for this problem that anyone knows of?

[platypotamus]

Please don't blame the developers. Publishers decide when to stop fixing bugs and just ship the game, usually barring developers from fixing bugs that "aren't important enough to hold back the game from the targetted release date."

Direct your anger at the appropriate sources instead of falling for the industry's scapegoating tactics.

[Cort Haus]

Re: Another developer using it's customers as Beta Testers

Originally posted by CBR1100

I remember the very first Civilisation which I played on my old ZX spectrum 3 (with revolutionary disc drive) and I've played every one since and to be honest this one doesn't offer that much over latest either in graphics or game play so how can it be so bugged???

Civ on a ZX Spectrum?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Stone-D
Use windowed mode, and set your desktop to 16 bit.

Maybe I should try that too, to see if the game crashes less on me.

[Jonah5]

Originally posted by Stone-D

Egosoft? They're a bunch of egomaniacs.

[Blake]

I'm going to be perfectely blunt.

I prefer that the game came out "incomplete" and that *I* could play it (without serious problems), than the launch be delayed so that other people can also play it without serious problems, why should I be denied playing Civ4 because other people can't play it?. Lets make it simple and pretend the game comes out working perfectely for all nVidia users, and not working at all for ATI users. Is there any good reason why the nVidia users shouldn't get to play the game while the developers make it work for the ATI users? What exactly have the ATI users lost in real terms? Isn't it a simple case of win-lose vs lose-lose? Isn't it really an emotional fairness issue?

In real life it's more complex. Where do you draw the line for the intitial release? When it works for 50% of users? When it works for 85% of users? 95% of users? 99.9% of users? It's never going to work for 100% of users.

I say that releasing earlier gives more options. people can buy early and accept the possible frustration of it not working, or they can wait for a couple of patches. Some people do the latter. (and seriously now, it's not like a game not working on release is unprecedented, rather it's to be expected. you can/could have make an informed and rational decision).

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Blake
In real life it's more complex. Where do you draw the line for the intitial release? When it works for 50% of users? When it works for 85% of users? 95% of users? 99.9% of users? It's never going to work for 100% of users.

I say that releasing earlier gives more options. people can buy early and accept the possible frustration of it not working, or they can wait for a couple of patches. Some people do the latter. (and seriously now, it's not like a game not working on release is unprecedented, rather it's to be expected. you can/could have make an informed and rational decision).

In real life the line is drawn based on the market. If a game will be successful when only 50% of the people that buy it can play it (initially) then it will be sold then. I don't know what the percentage is, but the market does accept buggy software as a release so it is here to stay.

-Drachasor

[Stone-D]

John-SJ : Yep, easily fixed. Lemme guess, you maximized the window? Try it at the 'native' window size... no problem right? Now open you civilization4.ini file in your mydocs folder. Somewhere near the bottom you can specify your screen width and height. Set it to match your desktop. Now download ShiftWindows - use that to simulate a full screen effect.

[Stone-D]

Blake : You make a valid point, but there is a very good argument against releasing a game that works fine in nVidia but not ATI (for example).

Multiplayer.

While the ATI crowd are waiting for a working game, the nVidia crowd is getting experienced with the game.

BTW, I don't do multiplayer.

[John-SJ]

Sorry, but I am not familiar with shiftwindows, I looked on download.com, shareware.com and google, couldn't find anything helpful.

What is it?

[Stone-D]

Ah. Its a neat little toy that lets you resize a given window (eg, a game) so that it mimics fullscreen. The window is resized so that only the active area, NOT borders and menu bars etc., is visible.

... damn, you're right! Nothing via searching. Christ knows where I initially found it.

Good thing its still in my download history :

http://grismar.net/shiftwindow/

http://grismar.net/shiftwindow/setup.exe

Enjoy!

[Blake]

... that's VERY cool. i'm going to play with this.

Instant alt-tab .

edit: Is there a way to make the window "mouse grab" and thus make push-scrolling work?