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A look at temporary freezes and CTDs (that I get anyhow).

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  • A look at temporary freezes and CTDs (that I get anyhow).

    I have a Athlon 2000+ XP processor, a Nvidia Geforce FX 5200 Graphics Card (81.95 drivers), Nforce(1) motherboard (by Asus), 768 megs of ram, and I use the onboard sound. I also have 3 gigs set aside for pagefile usage. I have gotten the latest Python .dll, the latest .dll for the audio system the game uses, and the latest blink and zlib files. These files have not helped my problems to any noticeable degree.

    I have two oddities that occur in my current games, and one that I am not currently dealing with. The one I am not dealing with is minor audio glitches, and I have turned the sound for the game off for the time being. This didn't help my other two problems.

    The first is the wretched CTD (Crash to Desktop for those that don't know). As is common with most this happens on a large map mid-way through a game. I can load the game, play a few turns, but it will inevitably crash (usually before 5 turns have passed). I have the logging enabled, but the problems it is reported seem non-crashing problems as some xml editing greatly reduced the complaints but not the crashes. I think my virus scanner may be partly to blame (Mcafee). Alas when I was testing this theory I had an entirely new problem occur. There was an error with Python (first time the python error log had anything). The game crashed. As I have spent most of the day working on this, I figured I'd make a post about my findings (such as they are) and work on it more tomorrow--that will start with more testing with the on-access virus scan disabled.

    The second problem is that the game freezes temporarily at odd moments. When it freezes nothing on the screen moves, though all graphics are rendered (including the circle indicated what unit I have selected if applicable). The mouse will also still move and I can go to the windows Task Manager. It remains in this frozen state for 10 seconds up to perhaps a minute, then returns to normal (sometimes it crashes when it is like this, sometimes it crashes when it hasn't frozen). The odd thing is that there is nothing that should be freezing it up, as far as I can see. For instance, I will have just finished moving a unit and the game goes to a new unit. AFTER it gets to the new unit and has the unit selected and all the graphics rendered it freezes (if it is going to freeze). It often does this when moving from one city to another at the beginning of a turn when I have to decide what they should produce (but all the windows renderd when it freezes). Furthermore, my system goes from the normal 3-40% CPU usage of Civ IV to 100% usage, and it stays at 100% until it is no longer frozen. Memory usage changes little, though sometimes RAM is *freed*, whilst I have never notice the pagefiling change. I can think of no good reason for this behavior (and it is Civ using up all the processing power as the task manager shows).

    Hmm, that all sounds rather gloomy, but I have found some good things too. First, I got rid of the sluggish response my system initially had in this large map. Units now respond to orders immediately and my commands are similarly listened to immediately. All of the following played a role in this fix:

    1. In the INI I changed "Set max frame rate clamp (0 means none)" from 0 to a fixed number (20 in my case, though when I used 30 tonight it seemed to work fine).

    2. In the INI I changed "Set to 1 for dynamic animation paging" from 1 to 0. (Note that the last two changes produce small effects by themselves, but a quite large difference together....I do not know why, animation paging should help the game go faster, one would think).

    3. I unpacked all of the art files into the custom directory. Then I deleted the Interface folder (keeping it inexplicably made the game crash on any load or new game--I also deleted the camera folder, though I am not sure if it was causing a problem).

    4. In the INI I changed "Disable PAK memory mapping (May affect performance)" from 0 to 1. Please note that this must be done with 3 otherwise there is a large performance degredation (at least with me).

    All four of these steps together improved my system performance substantially. Animations are smooth even on large maps...I just have these odd freezing errors and still CTDs.

    Tomorrow I will look at some more ini settings in detail. "Tree Region Cutting" looks like it might have problems based on the log files (though I am not exactly sure what this is). I am also messing around with turning off Trilinear Filtering on the minimap--I don't see why it needs something so fancy. I will also look at "Sync Input to Smooth Interface". Beyond that I don't have a lot of other ideas, beyond studying up on python and then profiling all the scripts to see where time is getting chewed up (assuming it IS a python problem, of course). I suppose I could always try older drivers for my graphics card...I shall probably do that as a last resort.

    Anyhow, perhaps this will be helpful for some.

    -Drachasor

    PS. Note that I have both background music and the audio turned off via the ini (redundant, I know), and I have windowed mode turned on via the ini. Lastly I have also disabled the wonder movies. I was getting some odd audio errors and wonder movies were sometimes messed up, but I now think these were merely red herrings as far as crashing is concerned. Oh, I of course have basically all the logging enabled.
    "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

  • #2
    Further testing seems to indicate I've gotten rid of my CTDs, as none have come up in the game I've been playing (before they came up every 3 or so turns, but now they haven't come up in 10). I will playtest it a bit more to be sure.

    I found that disabling "Tree Region Cutting" (whatever that is) didn't help. Nor did disabling trilinear minimap filtering*. It seems that disabling the "On Access Scan" of my virus scanner helps quite a bit as well. I have McAfee for what it matters. I intend to turn off its access scans whenever I play Civ IV from now on.

    However, enabling "Sync input to smooth interface (may run slower)" seems to have gotten rid of the CTDs and basically all of the long hangs at odd times (perhaps they were related). It still 'hangs' for a little bit now and then but for much shorter durations. Indeed, the task manager seems to indicate the game continues to let me input even when the processor is being used at 100% (or in that region of use). This is judging based on the CPU usage history as I was exiting the game.

    I still have all audio and sound disabled, as well as wonder movies. After 20 rounds in a row without crashing I will try to put back in the audio. If that works then I shall try putting back in wonder movies. I do not think either one of these elements was causing a crash, but I guess I'll find out.

    I am including a copy of my ini file for those that wish to look at it. I am 99% sure I have mentioned all the changes I made to it. I've renamed it to CivilizationIV.txt since the attach file option does not indicate it accepts ini's.

    -Drachasor

    *I suspect the game doesn't do this filtering all that much during play, unless you are messing around with minimap options.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Drachasor; November 30, 2005, 22:10.
    "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

    Comment


    • #3
      Keep us updated. Hopefully you'll be able to get sound and movies back on and still avoid crashes. However, I suppose I could live without the movies until the next patch comes out.

      Comment


      • #4
        Well the game seems very stable since I made all of the changes. I played about 20 or so turns and then was away from my computer for 20+ minutes while I drove my brother to school. When I came back the monitor had turned off (I have the screen saver turn on at 10 minutes and the monitor turn off 10 minutes later). Even so the game had no problems and I went right back to playing.*

        The logging still indicates audio errors, but that doesn't seem to make the system unstable. The sound play fine and I didn't notice any errors. I had both sound and music on. There are also some minor graphical errors in the log (largely failure to place objects), but they cause no apparent game problems.

        As for how the game plays otherwise, things are much better than before I did anything. Units instantly respond to the commands I give them for one. Any pauses that happen only last for a fairly short time (20 seconds at most, but that is very rare). Also there the game does not get slower as turns progress; its performance remains good throughout play. So overall the game plays much faster and more responsively than it ever did before on large maps for me.

        If some other people could try out what I did and see how it works on their system I'd appreciate it. One system is scant data to go on.

        -Drachasor

        *My computer did crash and reboot a few turns later, but I don't think that was the game (my computer is getting old). I think there might of been a memory error, but those blue screens only flash for a second so I am not sure. Anyhow, I had around 30+ turns of gameplay. (Also, the crash that happened was completely different from any crash I've had before. CTDs seem to have totally disappeared).
        "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

        Comment


        • #5
          drax, your problems sound pretty similar to mine. i only play earth map (which is huge) and keep getting CTDs. I have a sapphire radeon 9600 with 512MB ram and 1GB ddr at 400mhz.

          as the CTDs are my main concern, i'm going to try the Sync input to smooth interface fix first, then i will try the first 2 (together, as you suggested). I'm loathed to bother with the pak fix. i don't have an anim problem (as far as i know!)

          I'll let you know how i get on...
          well, what do you know, i worked it out!

          Comment


          • #6
            I just played about 50 or 60 turns without a problem. So it looks like my crashing days are done.

            -Drachasor
            "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

            Comment


            • #7
              well i managed about five turns before my screen froze up! no ctd though, so that's an improvement of sorts. I will try tips 1 and 2 as i said and let you know. glad your trouble are over...for now
              well, what do you know, i worked it out!

              Comment


              • #8
                i had the same problem. it seems to be pretty common. my system has higher specs than yours. 1024 ram at 3,sumthin ghz.

                i also tried that sync thingie.
                but on a huge map it gets VERY slow late-game, it can take more than 10 seconds to perform an action once i clicked. maybe someone should post this problem to firaxis?
                "Cogito ergo non sum"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well, perhaps you should try everything together. I am sure that any one thing (or even any two) would not have solved the problems I was having. The first 4 things I did helped with that sort of lag tremendously. Unpacking the 4 files is not too tedious...I don't think it takes more than 10 minutes at most. After that all I did was alter the ini.

                  -Drachasor
                  "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    well i've now tried everything but unpacking the art files and my game still CTD's every half dozen turns or so. I don't see how the extra graphics unpacking would cause this error. it usually happens when i perform a mouse click, sometimes at the end of a turn but not always.
                    well, what do you know, i worked it out!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by feckhornet
                      well i've now tried everything but unpacking the art files and my game still CTD's every half dozen turns or so. I don't see how the extra graphics unpacking would cause this error. it usually happens when i perform a mouse click, sometimes at the end of a turn but not always.
                      Well, that was the sort of CTD I was getting. What are your system specs?

                      The game seems to handle memory very badly. Unpacking the files means it has to deal with such operations less. Theoretically anyhow (it does seem to help when combined with telling the game not to cache the pack files).

                      -Drachasor
                      "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have an AMD 1900, 1 Gb PC2700 RAM, a Leadtek A250 GF4 Ti 4400 128mb AGP 4x video card and loads of HDD space. I bought the game, installed the game, updated the game with the latest patch prior to playing and immediately had the CTD's and slowdowns.

                        To eliminate all these errors I did this:
                        • Increased my page file size to 2560 MB
                        • In the graphics options I set the 'Render Quality Level' & 'Globe Quality' to Medium.
                        • Anti aliasing set to zero ingame.
                        • Within the options for the Nvidia drivers I set the Antialiasing to Zero and the Image Quality to High Performance as opposed to Quality.
                        • Disable in game music (just to lessen the load on the CPU).


                        So far so good except for a couple of hiccups with a CTD upon the beggining of a wonder movie. But I suspect that was because I had too many things running in the background at the time. But the about adjustments have definitely made a difference to the slowdowns and general CTD's on my comp

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          well I don't have the space for a 2 gig swap file. i'm also not too keen on shutting down the sound. what's the point. i may as well turn of the monitor as well...it's not much of a game if you have to do without all these things. i'd rather play civ 2 CTP. at least that game worked! if a patch that actually works doesn't appear in the next week or two i'm sending the game back. i've had enough of this farce.

                          btw, my spec is 2ghz athlon, sapphire radeon 9600 xt with 256 mb or ram, 1gb pc3200 ddr ram, epox mobo running at 400mhz.
                          well, what do you know, i worked it out!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A look at temporary freezes and CTDs (that I get anyhow).

                            Originally posted by Drachasor
                            3. I unpacked all of the art files into the custom directory. Then I deleted the Interface folder (keeping it inexplicably made the game crash on any load or new game--I also deleted the camera folder, though I am not sure if it was causing a problem).
                            Drachasor, can you please explain how to do this in detail? I tried steps 1-2 but that didn't help at all. I'd like to try this unpacking thing next.

                            Thanks in advance.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Re: A look at temporary freezes and CTDs (that I get anyhow).

                              Originally posted by Marko Polo


                              Drachasor, can you please explain how to do this in detail? I tried steps 1-2 but that didn't help at all. I'd like to try this unpacking thing next.

                              Thanks in advance.
                              Sure.

                              1. get the "pack extrator tool" from Apolyton:

                              2. Run it.

                              3. Choose "PAK" in the tool-bar (2 over from file) and go to your CivilizationIV/assets directory (in the default install it should be "c:\program files\firaxis\civilizationiv\assets"

                              4. There are 4 asset pak files there. Choose one (start with 0 and work up to 3 is one option).

                              5. Unpack it to "C:\Documents and Settings\Moose\My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\CustomAssets" -- you can use the shortcut to "My Documents" in the file explorer interface it gives you for unpacking.

                              6. Repeat 3-5 for each of the PAK files.

                              -Drachasor
                              "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

                              Comment

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