Purging Religions?

[djpsychonaut]

Originally posted by Shaka II
Maybe it could be a wonder that became available after discovery of communism? Russia is the least religious country on Earth, but China and Japan are also pretty nonreligious , as are places like Scandanavia, and even France and Scotland to a lesser degree.

True, but I think it's one thing to have people become less religious (a natural result of freedom of religion) and another to force a religion out...

[lastchance]

I don't think it's that big a deal anyway. The extra benefit from Temple + Monastary more than offsets the benefit to someone else.

[Nik]

Scandinavia aint "non-religious"!

We dont go to church very much, but retain much of the traditions of Christianity, and Christian holidays.
Religion is not just "religion", it covers cultural values, beliefs etc. So making an entire civilization "non-religious" is just, not realistic. Actually in Denmark, church and state aint really seperated.

But I think "Free religion" in civ4, shouldn't give more happiness than then buildings give, in addition to remove a religion, like the Inqustioner unit. But the problem here is the computer cannot handle this, which seems a little unfair to me, so maybe somekind of a religion mod with python that removes a non-state religion with a small fix probability when under the Theocracy civic... I dont know.

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by djpsychonaut


True, but I think it's one thing to have people become less religious (a natural result of freedom of religion) and another to force a religion out...

I agree. I think free religion works quite well in the game without resorting to the purge religion option.

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by Nik
Scandinavia aint "non-religious"!

We dont go to church very much, but retain much of the traditions of Christianity, and Christian holidays.
Religion is not just "religion", it covers cultural values, beliefs etc. So making an entire civilization "non-religious" is just, not realistic. Actually in Denmark, church and state aint really seperated.

But I think "Free religion" in civ4, shouldn't give more happiness than then buildings give, in addition to remove a religion, like the Inqustioner unit. But the problem here is the computer cannot handle this, which seems a little unfair to me, so maybe somekind of a religion mod with python that removes a non-state religion with a small fix probability when under the Theocracy civic... I dont know.

Exactly. I suppose you would know best, but my understanding is that having a state religion in Scandanavian countries, England, etc., may have led to less religiosity in the sense that people don't go to church very much as opposed to this country with free religion. I'm sure it's more complicated than that though.

[Nik]

Originally posted by Shaka II


Exactly. I suppose you would know best, but my understanding is that having a state religion in Scandanavian countries, England, etc., may have led to less religiosity in the sense that people don't go to church very much as opposed to this country with free religion. I'm sure it's more complicated than that though.

Yes it is really strange compared with The US! It seems to me (without making any generalization) that we the (modern) state provides a "religion", then people are more "down to earth" with it, and the opposite is the americans are "generally" much more religious compared to Scandiavia, UK etc. The muslims of Europe often get more religious than they were in their original contries.

If we generalize about this, it seems, when a modern ethic group, has a long history/culture, were the religion has undergone a evolution, their are often more keen to lose interest in their "official" religion.

The US, do not have a long history, not compared to the often homogenues ethicity of modern day Europe, where the US consist of many different cultures and values, and religion is often the most common way to express a relationship with their culture.
Likewise the immigrants in Europe, doesn't either have a foothold in Europe, and therefore often become more religious.

(Remark: Religious here doesnt mean something bad, it is a rather meant as a generally term about being interested and practice religion.)

[ben_sphynx]

It would be nice to have a mod that provided more religious tensions, and ways to purge religions from cities, possibly at a cost in population (go slavery?).
One might also add religion specific military units, and particular amnities (happness penalties) between specific religions when they are forced to exist with the wrong state religion or in the same city. Such amnities could provide happieness bonuses during wars against opposed religions.

Hmm, there is a thread about it in the modding forum:
Religious Tensions

[xenophile58]

I think the Romans did a fairly decent job extinguishing Druidic practise in Britain. The French were fairly successful at removing Protestant influence in their state. Christianity is pretty common in the Americas and Quetzalcoatl doesn't have many followers any more. Where are the Albigensians, Cathars, Arians and Manicheans? Will there be Zoroastrians for much longer? Relious beliefs are born, evolve and die - and can be killed. The designers chose not to reflect this in the game, but that might well be for other reasons than political conformity...

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by xenophile58
I think the Romans did a fairly decent job extinguishing Druidic practise in Britain. The French were fairly successful at removing Protestant influence in their state. Christianity is pretty common in the Americas and Quetzalcoatl doesn't have many followers any more. Where are the Albigensians, Cathars, Arians and Manicheans? Will there be Zoroastrians for much longer? Relious beliefs are born, evolve and die - and can be killed. The designers chose not to reflect this in the game, but that might well be for other reasons than political conformity...

Good post. Yes there were some successful examples in history.

Maybe the designers saw purging as a potentially offensive direction to take the religious aspect. But it can certainly be addressed by the mod community. I really laughed at some of the humorous comments from leaders like "you know our god is stronger than yours", or "switch to our religion, no one likes religious wars."

[xenophile58]

Given that the game has become much more complex than earlier versions and that Religion is one of the major enhamcements, it may be that the designers chose not to add more complexity by forgoing any facility for removing religions from a city. Religious persecution isn't a comfortable concept of course, but as has been said, neither is indiscriminate bombing, city-razing, nuclear war, or, in one game, mass-poisoning!
I personally am sorry that there wasn't a bigger emphasis on the historically important and complex impact of religious difference within the game but it's a minor gripe. I'm really enjpying the challenge of learning the game as it is.

[gdgrimm]

If you send a missionary to a city that already has that religion, can you use it to "increase" the following of that religion?

If so, then if you send enough of your religions' missionaries, can you drive the other religion out?

I just started playing yesterday, so I'm not sure.

[Philotas]

Originally posted by gdgrimm
If you send a missionary to a city that already has that religion, can you use it to "increase" the following of that religion?

If so, then if you send enough of your religions' missionaries, can you drive the other religion out?

I just started playing yesterday, so I'm not sure.

Each city can only be converted to a given religion once. And nothing drives out the other religions.

[djpsychonaut]

Religion doesn't work like nationality. There are no percentages. The religion is either represented in a city or not.

[djpsychonaut]

Originally posted by ben_sphynx
One might also add religion specific military units, and particular amnities (happness penalties) between specific religions when they are forced to exist with the wrong state religion or in the same city. Such amnities could provide happieness bonuses during wars against opposed religions.

Firaxis specifically did not want to give one religion any sort of distinction from another by adding separate benefits (apart from simply a different name). I think one MAJOR issue they were hoping to avoid was a built in tension, for example between Islam and Judaism. Civ 4 is supposed to be a "what-if" game, so the idea is not to have specific, pre-determined rivalries between certain religions.

[Kc7mxo]

Would have been nice if they'd let you choose the religion's name and icon when you founded it. Would have eliminated some of the controversy.