AI doesn't need Alphabet to trade techs?

[iratheous]

I was playing a 'Standard" size map with 6 AI opponents. The moment I learn Alphabet I started getting spammed with offers to trade my Alphabet tech for a tech of thiers.

Maybe I misunderstand how the ability to trade tech works, or maybe it is a bug (or an intentional benefit only enjoyed by AI nations).

Should the AI be allowed to propose tech trades if they themselves do not have the Alphabet, or should they be forced to wait until I initiate a trade proposal?

If my understanding is correct, I cannot initiate a tech trade proposal until I have the Alphabet tech myself. And then I have the ability to initate tech trade with a nation whether they have Alphabet or not, they just shouldn't be allowed to initiate a tech trade until they have the tech too.

So, does this ability of theirs apply only towards trading for Alphabet, or are they trading tech behind the scenes whether they have Alphabet or not?

[philosophile]

no... If one of you has the tech required to do X in trade then you both can do it.

E.G. If you don't have the ability to trade world maps, because you don't have (I think you need paper) but Ceasar does, you can trade world maps with him.

So if you have alphabet, EVERYONE can trade techs with you. But if they don't have alphabet, they can't trade with each other.

[iratheous]

I knew they could always initiate it if they had the capability, I just assumed I couldn't demand tech or maps etc unless I had the ability to do so myself.

Thanks for clarifying.

[Boris Godunov]

Does anyone think it would be better if tech trading could only happen if both parties involved had to have Alphabet? Same thing with paper/map trading?

[petermarkab]

I suppose it would be more logical. current situation:

In a sheepskin tent somewhere near Karakorum...

Hi Ghengis, I'll give you knowledge of alcohol in exchange for you showing me how to ride till i can't ride no more. Just write it down without using pictograms otherwise we'll be here all day.
Er Lizzie, I can't even write you patronising floozie!


I've changed my mind; you might have to write down the recipe for Black Sheep Ale, but you don't learn how to ride horses by reading.

Hmm, alphabet seems in this example a rather arbitrary tech to allow trading of knowledge. Better than immediate trading though

[solo]

If both needed Alphabet, there goes any advantage to the human player who tries to get to Alphabet first, in order to trade it for other techs!

Has anyone left Alphabet alone for a long time, just to see if the AI will initiate tech trading when they learn it first?

Does anyone know if the human player can initiate a tech trade if the AI gets Alphabet first?

[amicus curiae]

Originally posted by solo
Has anyone left Alphabet alone for a long time, just to see if the AI will initiate tech trading when they learn it first?

Does anyone know if the human player can initiate a tech trade if the AI gets Alphabet first?

Yes the ai will initiate, and so can you when only the ai has alphabet.

[Diadem]

Yep, AI will develop alphabet themselves, and they will trade then. With you as well.

But if you have alphabet and the others don't... You have a monopoly on trade. You can sell every tech many times. That's nice.

[Son of David]

Originally posted by petermarkab
I suppose it would be more logical. current situation:

In a sheepskin tent somewhere near Karakorum...

Hi Ghengis, I'll give you knowledge of alcohol in exchange for you showing me how to ride till i can't ride no more. Just write it down without using pictograms otherwise we'll be here all day.
Er Lizzie, I can't even write you patronising floozie!


I've changed my mind; you might have to write down the recipe for Black Sheep Ale, but you don't learn how to ride horses by reading.

Hmm, alphabet seems in this example a rather arbitrary tech to allow trading of knowledge. Better than immediate trading though

LOL!

But I suppose it's always possible to teach a few of the other civ's 'wise men' to read in your language.

Early technologies don't require the ordinary mass of people to be able to read, just the elites; who then tell the masses what to do.

[Simon Appleton]

Is it a good idea NOT to trade alphabet? I made a mistake in my games so far, I think, in not trading enough - like the loading screens say, when you've discovered a tech, it seems smart to see what you can get for it. But there are exceptions where you might want to hold on to a tech - eg for a wonder you are building. I wonder if alphabet is another tech you should not trade? Or at least, until some AI civ has it. That way you can keep your monopoly on tech trades.

BTW is there any quick way to see if any other civs have a tech such as alphabet? The tech panel on the diplomacy screen shows you what techs the AI might give (or not give) to you. But I could not see a way of finding out if the AI has a tech you also have, short of trying to trade techs with each and every AI, each an every turn (which would be a pain).

[TheHateMale]

I think on the foreign advisor screen, if you don't have alphabet it'll show up under 'will trade'. I can't be sure though - every time an AI researched it before me (usually when making a beeline for confucianism with the help of the Oracle), they've been entirely unwilling to trade it.

[Martinus]

Yeah, if you go into the tech trading part of the diplomacy screen, and left-click on a leader's portrait, it will show all other civs' technologies compared to that leader. If, among your technologies, there is alphabet (assuming you know it), this means the AI does not know it. Conversely, if alphabet doesn't show (but you have it) it means AI does not know it (there is also a small possibility that the AI hasn't even researched any of the techs leading to alphabet - in which case alphabet won't show next to your portrait either - but this is unlikely - in any case this will show Writing next to your name or some such).

[Cort Haus]

Don't trade away Alphabet unless your life depends on it. It's one of the fastest ways to blow a hard-earned tech lead short of giving all your techs away. In fact the latter might be better, as at least you get some diplomatic positives from it.

[pauli]

no, i will not trade you writing. no, i will not trade you alphabet. no, i will not accept calendar. no, i will not accept scientific method.

[Azuarc]

What's wrong with you? You would trade them the secret of alcohol for horseback riding?