I want my Gret Prophet back or how much random in the random...

[Handel]

I needed Great Prophet, so I put 4 priests to work it out. After a while I got my prophet, but the next turn the game crashed (Hail to Firaxis and their 1.09 patch). Usually I don't save, so I loaded the last auotsave 3 turns ago. I was thinking it is just matter of 3 turns to get my Great Prophet back, because this city had 55% chance for a prophet and the other 45% were divided evenly between the other GP. Now, after I reloaded and replayed those 3 turns about 10 times, I got once a Great Artist and the other 9 times Great Scientist (which had less then 20% chance).
So how much random is the random?

[Shogun Gunner]

one situation doesn't explain every possibility.

probability is, well, probability. You cannot predict the pattern in the short run.

I sympathize with your crashing issue. Yes, that does hurt the fun factor.

[bonscott]

If you are crashing all the time then why *aren't* you saving all the time? Just get in the habit of CTRL-S at the end of each turn.

[Proteus_MST]

Did you always replay all 3 turns (as it sounds),
or did you, at one time, save the turn before getting the GP
and only replay this last turn?

[Handel]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
Did you always replay all 3 turns (as it sounds),
or did you, at one time, save the turn before getting the GP
and only replay this last turn?

At first I replayed the 3 turns and after I got the scientist, decided it is matter of chance. So started the 3 turns again and this time saved before the last. Then reloaded (about) 5 times only the last turn and 5 times all the 3 turns, changing paths and builds and such, trying to reproduce what exactly I did when I got the prophet. I didn't care about the GP anymore, but was trying to understand the pattern.
The only thing I did understood was something I did or moved or build in those 3 turns actually caused the anomaly. So it seems the randomisation is seriously bugged. The chance for a scientist to appear for 10 turns with 20% probability is just 0.0000001024. And the chance a prophet not to be born for those 10 turns (with 55% probability) is 0.0034.
So it is not bad luck and it is not preserved seed from the previous turn.


About the crashes - it doens't crash all the time and it didn't crash before the patch, so I am not used to quick save.

[Dis]

I think they still use that annoying random seed thing from civ3. I hate it.

How hard is it to friggin' generate a random number?

[Shogun Gunner]

54

There you go. Fully random

[Kuciwalker]

Just kill off the scientist and use the worldbuilder to create a Great Prophet. Problem solved.

[gilfan]

as someone already said, they don't generate numbers randomly, they use a seed. each event that requires a "random number" uses the next number in the seed. so if you save the game, then do something "random" (fight a unit, open a goodie hut, etc), you'll get result X. if you then load that save and do exactly the same thing, you'll keep getting exactly the same result X. if you want a different "random" result Y, you have to do a another "random" action first, then go back and do your original event... you'll get a different number from the seed this time.

so if you still have this save game... load it up and start a war, attack something. this will use up the seed result that keeps giving you a great scientist. if you still don't get your prophet, reload and start a war again, but this time attack with a different number of units, different order, etc.

[Handel]

I don't mind the seed they used in Civ 3, because if the result is really random, many players will be tempted to reload untill they got what they need to get.
BUT: For those 3 turns I did a lot of different things and all those different things resulted in a scientist. So it is not really depending on your actions, neither on chance, but on some obscure and meaningless move. If I move a spearmen to one town, I get prophet, but if I move it somewhere else, I get a scientist. Why are those chances listed then when who will be born is decided by something other several turns ago?

[Aro]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
54

There you go. Fully random

[Aro]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Just kill off the scientist and use the worldbuilder to create a Great Prophet. Problem solved.

But then th egame will be "marked" as cheated in the Hall of Fame...

Unless you edit the HoF too...

[Bogdanovist]

Originally posted by Dis
I think they still use that annoying random seed thing from civ3. I hate it.

How hard is it to friggin' generate a random number?

errmm for a computer, actually it's impossible. That "annoying random seed thing" is how computers have to generate psedo-random numbers from a pre-set list. If you can suggest a better way you will either get very rich very quicly or get very dead very quickly as the suits from the NSA take you out....

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Aro
But then th egame will be "marked" as cheated in the Hall of Fame...

Unless you edit the HoF too...

So?

[gilfan]

Originally posted by Handel
I don't mind the seed they used in Civ 3, because if the result is really random, many players will be tempted to reload untill they got what they need to get.
BUT: For those 3 turns I did a lot of different things and all those different things resulted in a scientist. So it is not really depending on your actions, neither on chance, but on some obscure and meaningless move. If I move a spearmen to one town, I get prophet, but if I move it somewhere else, I get a scientist. Why are those chances listed then when who will be born is decided by something other several turns ago?

to get a different result, you have to do something that requires a random number to be generated, such as attacking a unit. just moving people around doesn't require a random number.

think of it this way... it's as if the game as already rolled in advance every random result in the game. roll 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... 3006, 3007, etc. roll # 3007 is going to give you a scientist, if you use it to determine which great person you get. you need to use up roll #3007 before your great person is generated, so you can try #3008.